Cascade Crew

[STEEL]

Well, like a teenager, I am once again getting ahead of myself. Once my engine is in and running, stick a Summit version of the 6AL (Mostly for the rev limiter) and then Its time to focus on chassis stuff.

Ok, first of all, remember when I first joined in may or june, how little I knew about engines? I know less about suspension. Please use small words, lol.

I know the passenger side of my front end is JACKED UP. When I bought the car the wheels were chewed up in one spot because the guy hit a pot hole or a curb at 40 or so. I took it in to be aligned, and they said it couldn't be done, the strut was bent. Tony also pointed out that my springs are way worn out. I believe it, and I think that is why I keep dragging my chin piece SO BADLY. If I am going to do anything with this stuff, I want to replace all the wear parts, and get this thing to handle the same as the stock IROCs did from the factory, or better.

I dont want to lower the car....

Are adjustable struts worth the money? I mean, I am going to run stiff springs, but If I can soften it up for a date, then cool. I just dont want to spend money on it if I wont see a noticeable difference between stiff and soft. Umm, how stiff is stiff?

(Please remember, I have never been in a really fast car that is up to snuff, if this engine swap goes as planned, it will be the second fastest car I have ever been in)

The back suspension wont be hard, I have already pulled the rear end out and replaced it, so I am confident on that. What about the front? I have heard its a real PIA. I mean, can I use Vice Grips to compress the springs?

What is a "Wonder Bar"? Is that the thing that goes from one strut tower to the other? How much does it cost, what does it do, and where is the best place to get one?

SFC, someone at cows said they took it to a body shop, had them straighten the frame, then weld in custom ones. All I see when I picture this is $$$. Cash is short, as always. I can get my father to help me weld them in, but that involves pulling up my carpet? That doesn't thrill me, because in my experience, interiors dont always go back together right, Im also afraid of what kind of rust might be down there.

Sway bars, what size are the ones that come on a 1991 RS? The rear should be stock for an 87 GTA (Came with the rear end) and I have the front one of a very early third gen Z28 sitting in the garage. How big should it be, and how do I measure?

Because I dont know ANYTHING about this stuff, I cant even hardly look over summit and price stuff, because I dont know what any of it is....

Suspension for dummys?

[STEEL]

oh, and steering boxs, I would love to go to a smaller ratio steering box, I dont know if they sell them, where to get them, how much, ect. I just know when I am power sliding, it would be great to not have to turn the wheel so many times!

[Quasi-Traction]

[91RSVert]

First, is it the strut, or the body that is bent?

Struts. Ive never had adjustable, they cost a ton! But if you stick with stock rate springs, then just stick with stock struts since money is tight.

Front springs, no you can not compress them with vicegrips. I have installed so many I no longer use a compressor(except silivrados!). But I do not recommend this, I'm sure some day it will be the fate of me. You can rent the tool usually with a deposit for the price(30 bux?). Get your money back when you return the tool.

Wonder bar has been posted already. However, Topdownsolutions.com sells one that is very cheap in price, and good quality.

SFC is considered a "must" for these cars. And yes, the frame needs to be strait first!! If you only do half the welds needed for spohns, you can do it with carpet in. To do all, you dont even have to pull the seats, just the door lip, and have someone hold the carpet back while someone else welds.

Swaybars. Install the one to suit your use and driving style. Bigger is not always better. I have the largest rear and I pull a tire up when cornoring...not good!! Fronts are usually 30hallow,32hallow,34hallow, 34solid, 36hallow. Rears 19,21,22,24... all solids. What car came with what is pointless now as old as these are. You measure the diameter, in the middle flattest section.

Ive done alot of work on my suspension, and have done lots of custom low rider trucks. If you got questions, ask.

[STEEL]

Ok, so where did ya'll go for your SFC?

This is what I have so far:

Strut Tower Brace

ENS-3-18131G Bushing Kit
KYB-735001 Adjustable front struts
KYB-743019 adjustable rear struts
MOG-5662 Front springs
MOG-5665 rear springs


So that comes to just over $700 for suspension pieces, and then find some SFC, and then I will be sliding around stiffer than snot when I want to, or kind of soft on prom night, ect? Maybe, kinda not really?

EDIT: I believe its the strut, but I am not sure....

[Dewey316]

First off. The KYB adjustables are probably not what you are looking for. You are not really going to change the ride much with adjustable shocks/struts. Most of the "harshness" is going to be based on the jounce wheel rate. your springs will set this, the KYB adjustables make a larger adjustment in rebound dampening, the bump is changed, but you probably won't make much of a noticable diffrence.

I think if you want a more managable project, and a better outcome, we need to take three or four steps back for a moment.

Lets start with answering a few basic questions.

1) What is the use of the car you want. IE, do you want straightline traction, or do you want it to handle like it is on rails, or do you want a street car, with a descent ride, or do you want a street car, with a rough ride, that you can toss around corners. Are you planning to auto-x or race the car at all, if so the class you want to race in, will define the modifications you can do.

2) What is the actual budget we are working off of. Is $800 the absolute max that can be spent now, or is that $800 now, then in 3 months, you will be willing to spend more. You need a solid plan of attack, and knowing your current budget, and future budget plans helps.

3) Realisticly do you have the ability/desire to do all the work.

Now, here is the thing with suspensions, it is a big game of trade-offs. Race cars aren't comfortable, comfortable cars aren't fast. You don't get the best of both worlds, that just isn't the case. You compromise between the two extremes and find a balance that you are happy with. There also aren't adjustable parts that are going to make the car go back and forth between the two extremes. Adjustable parts are designed as a tuning aid to get the most performance, they don't make your car a transformer.

There are a few of us here, who know a LOT about suspensions, and making these cars handle. So, lets step back from the shopping list for a few minutes (we will get there), and lets start looking a plan and goals, from there we can zoom in and look at more details, and then get to a shopping list.

--John

[STEEL]

Well, I dont want to say that Im setting up the car for drifting, more like Im setting it up for power sliding. Something on the harsh side of a street car would be great. So adjustable isnt what I want? I am young, and a harsh ride isnt going to break my heart. I can handle a few less "Comfort" things.

I want to go budget, and the less it cost, the less time it will take for me to get my money together. I dont want to have it be crap though.... $800 isnt the absolute max, but I dont want to exited it by too much.

I love to learn how to do this stuff myself, and I cant imagine paying someone else to do it for me.

[Dewey316]

[STEEL]

YES! Thats what I meant, exactly. I dont think a harsh ride will bother me though, one thing I hate is how much you can feel the front end go up and down while I shift....

[Dewey316]

Well the lifting on shifting is a few things, part of it is suspension geometry, some of it is spring rates, some of it is shocks, and some just won't be avoided.

Wanting to keep stock ride height, is going to really limit your options in springs, and honestly none of them are all that great IMHO. The other option you would have, is to get a weight jack setup like I have, from ground-control, but that would blow most of your budget.

BUT, Job #1, is going to be fixing what is broke, you can upgrade all you want, but 1 bad part ruins the whole thing. If you arm/lca/panhard/swaybar/strut-mounts are worn, you will need to replace those bushings. That is vital to getting this car to be fun to drive. I think I would scrap that bushing kit you have listed. Look at what you need, and get those individualy. A few of those things you may not want to replace the bushings on, you may want a whole new peice (like the panhard....).

Since you are looking right now at stock ride height, I would keep your springs or get some used IROC springs or WS6 springs. That will save you some coin, and honestly I see no reason to waste the money on stock replacement springs. If you were looking to lower it an 1", then something like the Eibach pro-kit would be good.

So, also, get under the car and measure the sway-bars, see what you have. If you have a 32mm-34mm, you are probably set, find a 23mm-24mm rear bar, and leave the front bar. that is going to help give the car a little more neutral ballance that the stocker setup, if you leave the front bar alone, and give it just a little more rear bar.

Where you want to spend your money, is in good shocks/struts. That is what is going to make the biggest single diffrence. If you had the budget for it, I would really suggest Koni's, but I think they are about $700 for the set, and that wouldn't leave you with much. Although I might still consider it if I were you. Get new a-arm bushings, used IROC springs, a rear sway bar, and koni's, that is about $800. Then spend some extra money to replace some bushings, tie-rods, etc, and you would have a descent setup.

The SFC, STB, LCA's, Panhard are all nice, but probably aren't critical. If you can afford a tubular Panhard, I would do that, as it is the lateral support peice for the rear end. The SFC's again, are a very good modification, and one you are likely going to want to do, but with so much other stuff, probably not where I would start. With the budget you have I think I would concentrate on fixing the front suspension, and shocks, then find a few used parts, and go from there. I think I have been quoted as saying this several times before. When I had nothing but factory RS springs, bigger sway bars, and shocks on my car, it was the most fun I have had in it. Sure it wasn't as fast as it is now, I have a lot more grip now, but it was perfectly balanced, and SO easy to drive at the limit. You might want to really consider going that route, and then adding on later as your driving skills, and budget grow.

--John

[STEEL]

I believe my car is already sitting a little lower than stock. When I get out of the RS and get into the Z28, I notice the difference in height. If I was to lower the car an inch or so, it would probably be right where it is now. Will this make a big difference for driving? Is it a more cost effective way to increase the cornering? I mean, I have to cross the tracks twice and then go over two speed bumps everyday on my way to school, then do it again on the way home. I already occasionally drag the cat or the air dam thing.

[83Z28BlackBetty]

john, may we all learn from your infinite wisdom.

He gives good advice, learn from him.

you are welcome to go for a ride in betty sometime and see how she feels. I did a budget suspension rebuild and i LOVE IT! it is no way like john's machine but she handles great!

I put in a set of ws6 springs, a new set of kyb gas shocks, 36mm front swaybar and 24mm rear, and new tierods. it now turns when i want it, grips tight, and feels really stiff in and out of corners. great handling for cheap.

~JAKE

[91RSVert]

Dewey is correct on that stuff. Ive also seen him and Dean go at it with others on TGO.

I will just say IMO for hard cornoring, 24mm rear bar is to much on stock'ish rate springs. But how much are you really hard cornoring?

On your parts list, swaybar MOUNT bushings are not in that kit.

Adjustable tube panhard bar as well(as Dewey said). You can go double heim on that and it wont make your ride harsh at all. You kill your ride going double heim on the LCA's.

Tq arm has also not been mentioned. But the more sold on this you go, the more you get the "front lifting" feel. Also, the more power and low gears you go, the more it lifts. It also changes your handling.

[STEEL]

[Twilightoptics]

[iansane]

[Al Hasse]

[iansane]

I almost forgot about the lifetime alignments. The firestone out here in tacoma on 6th ave has sales on that almost every month. Get it for $120 out the door. Only problem is they only do exact stock specs. Unless you can get friendly with the techs or something.

[91RSVert]

Thanks twilight.

I went from stock LCA's to double heim and it is night n day difference.

Steel,
Right now go and get new mounts and endlinks for the swaybars. Get the wonderbar.

If your shocks/struts are currently worn out, go replace them.

Then I would go with the SFC's.

Then start saving to go all out with new control arm bushings, panhard, springs, strut mounts, etc.

[Dewey316]