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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't be quick to blame the a-arm or crossmember, the second shot Jon posted seems to absolve them.
I'd be looking at the new rotors. They are the only thing that changed between the two cars. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I found it. The spacing from the spindle mounts to where the wheel sits on the rotor is much more than stock. The SSBC rotors are same as the rotors that came with it. It's just the way the brake kit is made - it's going to move the wheel on any car. My guess is if somebody ran rear offset wheels on all four corners then it wouldn't be very noticeable. I have large tires up front. I just can't afford any movement to the outside or it gets real goofy real quick.
So I guess the next question is, what is a brake kit that won't move the wheel at all? |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| QwkTrip wrote: | | My guess is if somebody ran rear offset wheels on all four corners then it wouldn't be very noticeable. |
Paul was running four front wheels on his car. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I found the root cause. Mystery is solved.
So back to the question earlier, what big brakes don't move the wheel? I need to find a solution and custom wheels are my least favorite idea.
I need good brakes but not Iansane brakes. My car will trap around 130 MPH in the quarter. It needs to be able to stop well. 4th gen wheels with spacers is not an option and aren't allowed at the track anyway. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Something just dawned on me. It doesn't matter what kit I have, if it requires the hub mod then it's going to be the same problem. If I want to keep my wheels then the only thing I can do is use stock style brakes on stock spindles. Correct?
This is a quandary for me. I like my rims. The stuff that's made today for 3rd gens is just friggin ugly. I can't use 4th gen rims without spacers up front and a whole new rear axle. One option is to do a 15" drag wheel setup and put some real meat in the back. It just so happens that my new front springs are drag launch.
Got to go think about this one. |
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blue89 Member

Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 3482 Location: Bellingham/Eugene
1986 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| If you modify a stock hub then the max the wheel moves out is the thickness of new motor mounting face. For me, that was a 1/4". What hubs did they use? |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
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C4 HD uses a 1LE Hub.
IIRC C4 uses a stock hub.
I just put fronts on the rear and it all all evened out, made the car look and handle better. It really didn't seem to move out very far for me.... _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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IROCDave Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Posts: 957 Location: Snohomish WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| QwkTrip wrote: | It's had mud flaps behind the front tires for 19 years. Every last picture I have ever posted has mud flaps. It's not by accident that there is not a single rock chip on the side of the car. And it's not by accident that you never noticed.
Look again.... |
It's called an attempt at humor, lighten up.
I know you know this, once you start adding aftermarket parts into the mix your basicly on your own. Nothing ever seems to be a direct fit and always leads to online searches, custom made somethings and more cash. It would be much easier to just walk into a dealer an buy the latest must have ride and make the monthly strokes. But... we have the 3rd gen gene. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I found out that Wilwood makes a 11" and 12" kit that has zero offset from stock p/n 140-11012 and 140-11275, respectively. It uses stock hubs and you simply cut the ears off like 1LE. Not a terrible price either. This is good news.
| blue89 wrote: | | If you modify a stock hub then the max the wheel moves out is the thickness of new motor mounting face. For me, that was a 1/4". What hubs did they use? |
Isn't there also a machining process that factors in that determines final depth? I don't know, I didn't study the hub mod yet. It's a question.
| IROCDave wrote: | | It's called an attempt at humor, lighten up. |
Mine was too. I guess you don't think it's funny I've had mud flaps all this time.  |
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iansane Member

Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 5742 Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| QwkTrip wrote: | I found out that Wilwood makes a 11" and 12" kit that has zero offset from stock p/n 140-11012 and 140-11275, respectively. It uses stock hubs and you simply cut the ears off like 1LE. Not a terrible price either. This is good news.
Isn't there also a machining process that factors in that determines final depth? I don't know, I didn't study the hub mod yet. It's a question |
The machining only deals with the diameter, not width.
| QwkTrip wrote: | I found the root cause. Mystery is solved.
So back to the question earlier, what big brakes don't move the wheel? I need to find a solution and custom wheels are my least favorite idea. |
I'd hardly say the mystery is solved... From your picture it looks like the wheel is getting moved out at least an inch or so. Like Travis said, it should only be moved out the thickness of the slip on rotor. _________________
| Quote: | | Sometimes I actually think I'm slightly retarded in the mouth. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Do you still have Paul's old rotors, or did you toss them? Those new rotors are the only unknown variable here. |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Guys, it's the 1LE Hub. It doesn't push it out as far as 4th gen stuff, but it's about a 3/8" difference, plus the 1/4" of the rotor thickness.
Makes it about a half inch. Never even dawned on me since I did it so long ago. Ed originally told me to use a stock hub. It put the rotor off by 3/8" in the carrier. I went back through my emails.
Sorry Jon, I guess this is my mistake for not informing you. I never had fitment problems and my stock wheels/tires tucked in the fenders just fine and looked good.
I think you're aftermarket wheels may be extrapolating the issue aswell. _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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iansane Member

Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 5742 Location: Bothell
1991 Pontiac Trans Am
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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That explanation makes sense. I think we solved it. Thanks for the help, guys!
I was disappointed to think that I have to sell it at a loss (new rotors and all) and start over with the unknown, but I think I'll put a 1/4" spacer on my stock setup and see where the tire lands. If it looks good then I'll probably convert my spindles and sell the 1LE spindles. |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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nO NO NO NO.
Thirdgen spindles are thirdgen spindles.
1LE hub. Means the original rotor/hub assembly from a 1LE. The 1LE hub also uses slightly larger and stronger wheel bearings than the STD thirdgen stuff, but they both use the same spindle. _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ah! Okay.
I think the first thing for me to do is read up on how the conversion works. I have a friend at work with a machine shop in his garage. That should be the easy part and not cost anything. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Cool writeup. Wasn't around when I did it LOL _________________ A redline a day keeps the carbon away! |
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redlava Member

Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 448 Location: Bremerton
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Could you maybe have the 5/8" milled off the back side of the two front rims? |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club

Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| No, that would be suicide. |
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