Cascade Crew

Xophertony

or trying too. once again i undertake somthing, think i have everything under control and then it all goes horibly wrong Laughing

http://www.thirdgen.org/propvalve <--THIS is what i tried to do. atfirst i was going to leave my stock combo valve and gut it, and then install the willwood in line. this way i could retain my low pressure warning light. yay good idea right? well it all worked mostly. i gutted the valve and had it all sealed up. then i went to put in the willwood.

problem number one.
our cars use BUBLE fittings stock. these are "only found on german cars" says the old guy at napa. who assurs my that the site on TGO must be wrong. since the guy makes refference to turning your old combo valve into a bong i assume he is right. he was wrong, we have buble fittings.

so i take the line going to the rear of the car from the combo vlave and cut the end off and make it double flare to mate with the willwood valve. ok. no problem. then i take the small lenght of hrdline i bought, slice off one of it's doubleflares and put the other end on the willwood. no biggie. then i take the open end and prepare to re-use the bublefittng on it and place it in the stock combo valve.

problem number two.
it's hardline is too big to go into the fitting. bummer, i head to nappa for a new fitting. they don't sell buble fittings in that size. i buy a smaller one, a different size line and an adapter, i get home and the napa sold me the wrong adapter, i go back, they don't have the right one. so i decide "screw it" and buy all the stuff from the tech article and figure i will replace the combo valve with the "T" fitting like they show.

problem number three.
on all the 1/4" line i can make (what atleast seem like) perfect double flares. but on the "3/16" (in quotes because i think it is some odd size that is slightly larger)i can not make a double flare to save my life. is there some trick to this? they come out lopsided. WTF? i think it is because the brake line on the car is slightly larger. all the other flare fittings fit snugly inside the line, this one is loose. but the next size up is far to large. i am thouroughly confused. but by this time it is dark so i pack it in for the day. i'll get back to it on wednesday. hopefully it will not be raining.

here are some fun photos from my day of brake line hell.

this first shot is of the two fitings on the bottom of the master cylinder. notice the awsome one for the front brakes. and the sucktastic one for the rear (larger hose).

this one is of the buble flare that normally goes to the rear axle from the stock combo valve. it is shown here bent into the position it needs to be in for the new willwood valve. this is before i cut it off. this is mostly here in case anyone says somthing like "they DON'T have bubble falers, you must be wrong.

so if anyone has done somthing like this before and has any additional insight that would help i am all ears. Smile

iansane · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:08 am Post subject:

If you use an MC from a 98+ fbody you get the warning light built into the resevoir. I had what you are trying to do with adapters and 90's and random crap for quite awhile and HATED the look of it. I finally just picked up a new MC and it looks a million times better. Plus, it comes with a screw on cap like most new cars.

Only downside I see is that it makes vacuum bleeding from the MC side difficult.

Oh shat, didn't see your PMs. I'm going to hold on to the wheels for now. I don't know what they're worth at all.

Xophertony · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:50 am Post subject:

RE wheels: cool. keep me updated

RE this stuff:
yeah, i remember you saying somthing about the newer style MC. i am thinking of going that route. a few questions for you.
did you use a new or used MC?
what is "bleeding from the MC side"?
did you have to run all new hardlines?
were you able to doubleflare the existing hardline to the back of the car?
do you have any pictures of how yours is set up? i would love to see it.
does the 98+ MC use DoubleFlares or Bubbleflares ?
did you notice increased braking pressure with the newer style MC?

iansane · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:19 am Post subject:

blue89 · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:34 am Post subject:

Hey Tone, look at my cardomain site, I already did this and went through it all. The easy part is getting the fittings for the MC, the hard part is getting everything for the tee and Prop valve. Want me to explain further what I did?

Xophertony · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject:

would love more explanation. i am back at it tomorow

blue89 · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:58 am Post subject:

Once I figured it all out, it was easy.

tee the front lines using adapters and whatever tee you want. They don't get the prop valve at all, so just run it up to the MC. Since you can bring the tee and MC to the store, just ask to run through the fittings bin and get everything you need.

The hard part is getting the PropValve in. Mine had weird metric thread on the valve itself. But I found adapters. I had to cut off the stock 14mm fitting from the line that goes to the rear. Noone has an adapter for this. NOONE! Evil or Very Mad

Get the stock rear line setup with the new fitting, use the adapter to the PV. Use the stock little piece to get from the MC down.

So, examine the pic very well, you can see all of the adapters I used. From the top down....

Front
Stock Pipe from MC
3/8 fitting, double flare
Adapters
Tee
Adapters to stock front lines

Rear
Stock Pipe from MC
3/8 fitting, double flare
adapter
Wilwood prop valve
adapter
3/8 fitting, double flare on stock pipe

Done!

Xophertony · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:37 am Post subject:

cool. i am gonna try baxters for the adapters. my napa has verry little.

83Z28BlackBetty · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject:

GOOD LUCK! let me know what you think, I'll probebly do this if I swap out my rear end.
~JAKE

Xophertony · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject:

so, i spent from 1PM to 5:20PM in my car driving today. looking for brake line fittings.

knects: "ace has all this stuff"
ACE: "we don't carry brake line fittings, did you try autozone?"
Autozone: "wow... european style to american.. no, good luck, NO one has that"
schucks: "there is no such thing as 'doubleflare', it's called 'standard flare'. you should try Oil Filter Services"
NAPA: yeah.. we don't have that. try Oil filter Services
OILK FILTER SERVICE on 6th and market in portland :
oh, yeah no problem, i'll be right back. 4 minutes and $22 i was on my way. then i get home and descover they forgot to give me / i forgot to get the 10MM bubble female/female adapters, so i turn right around and go back. they gave those to me free since i had to drive all the way back

then i bent all the lines and put it all together. so far only ONE spot leaks. and that is the double flare i did on the line that comes from the willwood and goes to the rear end. gor i hope it is not a bad flare. hopefully it just needs to be tightened down some more.

i would have bled the brakes and driven her home, but i had run out of daylight. so tomorow. took some pictures.

in this first picture you can see the bottom line on the propvalve, this goes back to the rearend. this is where the leak is.

this next one shows the propvalve from the otherside, and realy allows yo to experiance the convoluted mess that is my engine bay Rolling Eyes

iansane · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject:

Wow.

I thought you were doing all this to keep the idiot light?

Xophertony · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject:

originally i was gutting th eprop valve to keep the idiot. light. that did not work out so i romoved the whole thing instead. the only way i could get my idiot light back would be to buy a 98+ MC. and that is just not cost effective. i will just have to make sure i never run out of fluid.

had i known about this "oil filter service" place beforehand i could have gutted the prop valve no problem. would not have had to make a single flare either. could have done it all with premade lines. Doh!

aaron_sK · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject:

Oil Filter Service -------------------------> everybody else.

Can't beat them. Wink

Xophertony · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject:

yeah they kick the ass allright. they can MAKE braided steel lines while you wait.

www.oilfilterserviceco.com

Dewey316 · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject:

Yup they rock. I had them make some crazy audi high pressure lines for me. I think we got some -AN tee's from them also. Mike may have gotten a few Aeroquip things that summit was going to have to order.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject:

I got a few pieces from them too.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:

huh..........never knew about em...........very handy, I'll have to keep them in mind.

blue89 · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:05 am Post subject:

yeay! Go tony go! They are fun to play with. I kept turning mine up and down until I got the rear to just barely lock up before the front. It helps with autocross because I can get the car to brake drift. Not exactly good for highway panic stops, but it helps turn the pig in a tight miata course.

Schultzy89GTA · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:23 am Post subject:

Didn't even think about them for brake line stuff. Great company though. They have stuff in stock that others can't even order. Good resource for the local folks and they were very professional/courteous as well.

-Schultzy

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject:

Glad to hear you got the GTA back Prop Valve in and dialed.

Did you ever get those pictures I asked for of the Third Brake light delete?

paul--if you're going to be at the swap meet on Sat, I can give you that trim piece for the back side of the hatch....

anybody intrested in a power hatch pull down unit? I'm selling it for cheap, since I'm turning the berlinetta into a "slammer" hatch.