Cascade Crew

Danked · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: I have a question about intake.

I'll be getting my camaro back soon. wanarunhard is installing my new engine at the moment. Anyways, i was curious, i read on TGO a min ago about not needing a bigger TB unless you have like 400+ hp or something because the intake is very restrictive and having a bigger TB really contributes no purpose. So, my question is, since the 3.1L (my engine for those of you who do not know) and the 3.4L are similar, can i pull off the intake manifold, upper and lower plenums from a 3.4L, will it work on my engine and give me less air restriction? If so, will this boost performance? I want easy performance upgrades, cheap, i dont want to install a turbo since i will have a 350 soon. Thanks.

Xophertony · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:41 am Post subject:

unfortunatly that is NOT un uprade. the 3.4 intakew is almost exactly the same with one exeption, it goes back a bit farther so you will be unable to fit a distributor. about your only options as fara as new intakes for the 60* v6s are $1,000+ for a trujeo or somthing (sea4rcg TGO for the name) or a custom one you yourself make.

but before you unrestrict your intake you need to unrestrict your exhaust. THAT is where the biggest bottle neck is. headers first, then intake.

also, to quote MAD MAX. "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" in other words there are verry few "cheap and easy" performance upgrades.

TecherB · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:

The physical size of the intake is not what creates the restriction it is the size of the ports traveling through the intake and head. the TPI intake system is huge compared to to a single plane or dual plane carb or TBI intake but it can be more restrictive than the single or dual because the ports can be smaller. Likewise if my intake ports are the size of a fire hose(diameter) but my heads ports are the size of a garden hose(diameter) then the intake size is useless becaus the heads will restrict and not allow it to flow very much.
Tony is right the stock exhaust is usually the most restrictive and can give you the best bang for the buck right off the bat.

Dewey316 · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:31 am Post subject:

Runner length also plays a big key, in the diam. size needed. It is all about total flow. The smaller diam, gives you higher velocity at the same flow rate. So you have to balance velocity, which gets adjusted by diam and length of the runners, and the available flow capacity. The ultimate goal is the most complete cyl fill possible, sometimes bigger isn't better for this task. Higher velocity, tends to favour lower RPM power, as the cyl, has longer to fill, the velocity of smaller/longer runners, gives a better cyl fill, whereas large short runners favor higher RPM cyl filling.

Like so many things on cars, it is a balancing act.

I agree with everyone else, exaust is the best place to start on our cars.

TecherB · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:41 am Post subject:

You can inprove an exhaust with out headers a lot of the time. the design and size of the exhaust after the manifolds can cause a restriction.
so insted of droping $1000 on headers on an exhaust you can spend $300 on a muffler and exhaust tube and improve the flow.

blue89 · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject:

I just did a side pipe exhuast. I did notice an improvement. But its way loud.

Xophertony · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject:

i think the LARGEST restriction in the stock exhaust on ANY thirdgen besides the manifolds is the "Y" pipe. or T pipe as the case is. on most if not all header cars you will have a "Y" shaped pipe where the two banks join into one. on our stock exhasust systems you have a 90* intersection, or "T". this is BAD for flow. hacking out the stock joint in favour of a true Y pipe would realy help, especialy if done with a good catback system at the same time. and if you know people with wealding skills this can be done for verry cheap.

Danked · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:49 am Post subject:

Has anyone had a custom y pipe made that they noticed a difference in hp? If so could you pm me the directions in making them or has a picture? The guy that did my CAT delete says my stock style y pipe is the only kind that will fit under the car. Thanks.

Xophertony · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:57 am Post subject:

uhhhh... the guy who did your cat delete does not have an imaganitive mind. EVERYONE on this board with headers has a true y-pipe. (or duals, like paul. but don't bother with that. no gains)

to make one you will just cut off the tee, and weld a mandral bent 90* bend in, buy this at an exhaust shop. this bend will face the rear of the car. now take the pipe that faces the passanger side (coming from drivers side bank) and weld in another 90* mandral bend that faces the rear of the car. now you should have two pipes that curve to face the same direction and are ~1" apart. now take a 2:1 Y connector and weld it to the two input pipes. now weld your "catback" to the output pipe.

any exhaust shope worth it's name should be able to do this. but it will probably run you like 200$. i would find a friend with a welder.

Danked · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:

i have a welder, and ive done some of my own exhaust work, im not the best, but at least its sealed Very Happy

anyways, could someone draw me a picture or show me a site? i cant picture what your trying to say. other than exhaust work, what would be an easy +hp upgrade? an ebay computer chip for $60?

rjmcgee · The Hammer Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2328

That Ebay chip will gain you around 80 horses at the wheels.

Combine that with an electric supercharger and it will be close to running 12's for less than $200.

Danked · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:03 am Post subject:

but with a stock engine will i blow it easy, which is what i dont want Laughing

not again..

rjmcgee · The Hammer Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2328

Xophertony · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject:

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject:

Dude......all this time...........V8's are overrated Doh!

VTEC POWA!!! Hail hail

Danked · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject:

which ebay chip should i buy. i found this thing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Used-Camaro-3-1-V6-computer-with-hypertech-chip_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33597QQihZ006QQitemZ160012796549QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
is this a wise buy

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:26 am Post subject:

I'd wait on doing a chip or any computer modification for now. It won't help at all if you don't get the physical restrictions on your motor fixed first. I'd start with exhaust first. The Stock Y (more like a T) pipe is a HUGE restriction on exhaust flow. Alter the design to be more like a true Y-pipe and it'll help open things up a bit. Clean out your throttle body and intake plenum.. its amazing how those little things can help. it won't make your car super fast, but it will give it slightly more power and it'll also improve gas mileage. Make sure all your vaccum hoses are in decent shape, check for exhaust leaks, etc.

I said it once and I"ll say it again, if you want to make that V6 fast, find a turbocharger, and go forced induction. Assuming everything is in order with the new 3.1 you're getting that thing should be able to handle 10-12psi boost no problem. in the end it might work out cheaper than finding all the stuff to swap over a V8 into the car.

Danked · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:47 am Post subject:

ok got it, thanks. btw the engine isnt NEW its got like 96k miles. but its better than mine, and it actually runs. and i dont think $700 including shipping was bad at all. plus the $450 from wanarunhard to install it. are you guys saying i should hone out my intake plenum?

Al Hasse · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:28 am Post subject:

Won't work on your car anyway. They are year specific, you want p/n 121332. This one he has for sale is 120332 for 1990 3.1. Also need to check for auto and 5-speed.

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:25 am Post subject:

Al is right. Plus, the Hypertech chips aren't all that great. Trust me, I run one. All they do is crank up your timing advance at higher RPM, and drink gas like a Ford SUV. You will also want to run at least a 180* t-stat with them if you do go that route. There's a reason they call it the 'ThermoMaster' Wink