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Dewey316 The Lama
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Asdfga3 wrote: | You could easily put an L98 at 12.9 with 2K, but I wouldn't advise it:
Full exhaust
>>>FULL<<< weight reduction
HSR
slicks
pray your 700R4 blows up on the second pass, and not the first
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This is the point that Rodney brings up. There enough of us, knocking on the 12 second door, but haven't done it yet, with MUCH more done to our cars than that.
Look at the members rides page, and look at the modifications some of us have done.
Look at Twilightoptics, rjmcgee, myself, schultzy89gta. All 4 us, have been in the 13.01-13.3 range. None of us have actualy gotten the 12second time slip.
Schultzy, with a bit of traction, could probably get an 11second time slip, but there is so much more to actualy doing a 12 second run, than people who aren't even close think there is. |
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rjmcgee The Hammer
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2320
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Dewey316 wrote: | Asdfga3 wrote: | You could easily put an L98 at 12.9 with 2K, but I wouldn't advise it:
Full exhaust
>>>FULL<<< weight reduction
HSR
slicks
pray your 700R4 blows up on the second pass, and not the first
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This is the point that Rodney brings up. There enough of us, knocking on the 12 second door, but haven't done it yet, with MUCH more done to our cars than that.
Look at the members rides page, and look at the modifications some of us have done.
Look at Twilightoptics, rjmcgee, myself, schultzy89gta. All 4 us, have been in the 13.01-13.3 range. None of us have actualy gotten the 12second time slip.
Schultzy, with a bit of traction, could probably get an 11second time slip, but there is so much more to actualy doing a 12 second run, than people who aren't even close think there is. |
Exactly!
Now if someone here put together a drag only car it would prolly be easier and cheaper than the route I and others here have gone. All 4 cars that Jonh mentioned handle as well or better than stock. All have full interiors and options. Also all of them are now 5 or 6 speeds which is 10x more fun but also alot more challanging on the drag strip. |
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84transam383 Banned
Joined: 25 Jan 2004 Posts: 431 Location: bend, or
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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just so you guys know,i wasnt knocking your cars,i was mainly saying that in terms of a relative stock l98,for 2 grand alone you could run 12,ssticky tires,and some juice is a proven method,not very reliable,nor,economicaly feasable,since bottle fillups are 40-50 bucks.
all of the heavy hitters are not going the route of a bolt'on l98
schultzy has a 383 with miniram?
rod has a built up carbed small block 355?
paul has a small block with stealthram,cant rember the cubes but i think tis over 350
my main point was,in my opinion i think if he spent the money on a L98 car and thrw 2 grand at it ,he would be disapointed,to a certain extent.
anytime you go fro ma car with 135 - hp,to a car with 240 ish hp and 350ish tq,thats a HUGE stepup,but the novelty wears off quickly,which is why we all mod our cars,im not quite sure if he would see the gain in real terms,that he would expect from 2k worth of mods...to to mention the headaches that come with more horsepower in these cars.
sfcs,suspension,wheels/tires,all of which is jsut as expensive,if not more spendy the the motor itself. |
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Dewey316 The Lama
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 7295 Location: Bringing the tech
1990 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, with nitrous, you probably could.
A BOLT on L98, not a chance. even with $2k. My point was, look at rodney's build-up. Big heads, cam, intake, carb. Pauls, HSR, big cam, big heads. Mikes, 383, BIG heads, big cam, mini-ram.
With an L98, what bolt ons are going to get you more HP than those guys? you end up doing a heads/cam/intake swap to even think about it. I would be willing to be, that in a 100-125 shot of nitrous on a stock L98, won't put you into the 12 second range, unless you really hook up, like 1.7 or less 60' hook up. IF you did that, chances are you are not making it to the finish line, I bet you break something when you try it. |
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84transam383 Banned
Joined: 25 Jan 2004 Posts: 431 Location: bend, or
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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well thats also the point i was getting at,its possible with nitrous,but not reliable. these cars are so frail drivetrain wise,you really have to be careful if you want to drive it home lol.
even 2 grand wont get you the boltons,roughly a grand for heads for alums,or 600+for complete irons,cams are 100-400 depending on flat tappet or rollers,headers and exhaust theres another 500+ depending how fancy you get,it adds up insanely fast.
and then,on top of that you have to question the shortblock your bolting these peices too,i know i wouldnt just start bolting on highroller parts like that to a questionable high miles shortblock,especially considering if the motor lets loose,alot of those highdollar parts can get frigged in a quick minute. i think we've all learned you cna start from the top and get to a certain ET,and horsepower level,but to get to the next level,you have to start from the bottom up. basically what i mena,if someone doesnt understand
yes you can make a L98 run 13s relatively easy,without blowing a huge ton of money,but to get the same motor/car into the 12s/11s,its WHOLE new ballgame.
since ive decided to go ahead and continue on with my 84 t/a,im nto even worried about the motor right now,its the last of my worries,right now,suspension,brakes,interior and the body are the concerns,my plan is a single remote mount turbo on a 6 liter lq9 iron block aloum head LS1. the fun would be over real quick if i jsut tossed that motor in and went for it,replacing rearends and trannys everyweek isnt my idea of fun.
if theres one thing ive learned,dont set the goal high,set the goal realistic. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that was sorta my earlier point. If you actually ever fully hook up a stock 3rd-gen drivetrain, it's going to not last more than a run or two.
However I figure if I leave my L98 alone for awhile, and focus on drivetrain/suspension/body/ect. I can build a car that can handle 500+ HP while still actually being able to race a V8.
And now, to the original topic. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that our friend Danked honestly doesn't know what he wants out of his car.
If you're looking for a sporty econo-car, there are better options (like the aforementioned 3.4L 4th-gen which you should be able to pick up for around the price of a decent quality L98)
If you want a usable bit of power, without blowing your budget or spending all day in the machine shop, then get an old 350 Camaro (or even a 302 Mustang *is burnt at the stake*), do minor bolt-ons, and be happy with your high-13 second car.
If you're going to toss the entire stock drivetrain, then it's wide open. Stick with a car that will physically fit your end plans, but if you want an 11 second SBC, there are hundreds of good cars to start with. Anyone for a rebuilt Chevelle?
If you want to learn something about cars with your Dad, then try building a 350 and swapping it in. Nothing fancy, just a seasoned block, maybe some older ported heads, slap a Holley 600 on there and roll. You might even learn what mods need to be done first.
Without actually deciding where you want to go with this project, then you're just going to waste your time and money, and end up with something you didn't really want. |
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QwkTrip 11sec Club
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 3942 Location: Peoria, IL
1989 Pontiac Firebird
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Asdfga3 wrote: | Hehehe..... by "balls to the wall" I'm sure you mean "parked in the garage," right? |
LOL! Obviously you have first hand experience that having a hot rod is synonomous with broken and needs repair.
As far as the rest of this thread goes...
- No 2.8L V6 (or any other V6 from a Camaro) is going to out pace a small block Chevy on the same budget.
- No hopped up V6 is going to get great mileage.
- Speed costs money any way you cut it.
- Power and glory takes a lot of effort and time. And most times quite a bit of money.
End of story. |
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Danked Banned
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 278 Location: Toppenish, Wa
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Asdfga3 wrote: | And now, to the original topic. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that our friend Danked honestly doesn't know what he wants out of his car. |
What i want is something that gets pretty decent gas mileage when just normally driving around town, but massive power when wanted / needed. _________________ Towed amaro, 2nd engine blown spent $1500 not spending more. Decided not worth it. |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Is that the same 454 that was in the firebird? |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Danked wrote: | Asdfga3 wrote: | And now, to the original topic. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that our friend Danked honestly doesn't know what he wants out of his car. |
What i want is something that gets pretty decent gas mileage when just normally driving around town, but massive power when wanted / needed. |
Doesn't exist, not going to happen, as they say: Fuggehdaboudit....
Massive power: Any V8 Turbo or built SBC/BBC
Decent mileage: Any I4/V6
If you're dead set on both, you'll need money and time, and it will still be a comprimise. Get a 4th-gen V6, and build an underhood turbo. Nowhere near the power of a turboed V8, but you'd be looking at the neighborhood of 25mpg+ without a lot of boost running. Gonna take time, work, tuning, and a lot of fabrication though.
I can't completely write it out of the picture though. This is an old topic from TGO about a 500/500 350 getting 20mpg with a Weiand 177 and a Holley Commander TBI system:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/power-adder/144692-recipe-500-horsepower-22-a.html?highlight=roots
Also a good read if you're interested in how you can run an overpowered engine through an less-than-abusable drivetrain as long as you never fully hook it up. |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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He needs to define decent milage and massive power.
If you want 35mpg and 400RWHP prolly not going to happen.
You want 26MPG and 300RWHP it can happen (with a fourthgen LS1)
I've got 310+ on the ground and plenty happy with 15 before tuning.
You can also go Super Charger and stay out of the high rpm boost for around town. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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A supercharger is going to pull it down more than a turbo would though. With a turbo you're not really into the boost that much until you start to rev it up, then you start to dump gas to compensate for the boost. With a blower, that belt is pulling on your crank constantly, even when idling there's still drag on your engine.
For a guy who spent 200 bucks on a car, he sure does want a lot out of it though. I hate to see anybody dissapointed, but balacning drivability, mileage, and power is the toughest part. |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Asdfga3 wrote: | A supercharger is going to pull it down more than a turbo would though. With a turbo you're not really into the boost that much until you start to rev it up, then you start to dump gas to compensate for the boost. With a blower, that belt is pulling on your crank constantly, even when idling there's still drag on your engine.
For a guy who spent 200 bucks on a car, he sure does want a lot out of it though. I hate to see anybody dissapointed, but balacning drivability, mileage, and power is the toughest part. |
I know the differences in a turbo vs supercharger.
Still way off topic.
If you want to build up the 3.1... do it...
Summitracing.com is the best place for deals on parts and customer service. Hands down. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mean it as an insult, it was just this:
Quote: | You can also go Super Charger and stay out of the high rpm boost for around town. |
That didn't make a lot of sense to me, since you're not going to install a blower with the idea of using it "around town." |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Knew a guy who put a supercharger on a mid 90's Z71 pickup.
Had a boost gauge, towed a boat, daily driver.
Said his milage didn't change after putting on the S/C... if he drove it mild like a commuter. Had the power when he needed it especially up hill towing.
That was my point. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm... what type of blower? And did he keep the stock intake and chip? How much boost? Did he screw with the fuel/timing, or was it all basically stock? |
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Twilightoptics Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 9191 Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Stock. Added like a paxton or vortech kit with FMU. That was it. |
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Kinda figured. Probably 350/450 setup with that kit, right? Not bad for a towing rig. |
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Quasi-Traction "I have petals"
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 3873 Location: stumptown
1986 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Danked wrote: |
What i want is something that gets pretty decent gas mileage when just normally driving around town, but massive power when wanted / needed. |
Honestly, I still think the V8 car is a better way to go. If you were so concerned with economy you can take a junkyard 307 intake manifold and put it on a 350 or 305 and put a 2 barrel Varajet (Q-jet cut in half) or 2 barrel Holley and tune it on the lean side and get about 15-17 mpg. My Fairlane has a 2 Barrel carb, and it gets about 17mpg on the highway and around 15 in stop and go traffic. Even TBI and TPI cars when tuned properly can get 15-19 mpg. V8's have better low end torque than a V6 (better acceleration from a stop). The 3.1 probably only gets about 20-24mpg. Again, you have to decide which you want more, power or economy. Its tough to get a balance of both. _________________
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aaron_sK Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 8834 Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Two words guys: Fuel injection
Pick your poison: port, DFI, doesn't matter. Costs a little more, needs a laptop to tune properly, but gas milage... don't even try and compare. |
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