Cascade Crew

izcain · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Spohn Torque Arm

I was wondering if anyone on here has the Spohn torque are and if so did they notice a difference in traction? also weight wise? I was thinking about installing one.

I see they ven make one in BLUE YAY! Laughing

Although I love to pitch the guys over on Thirdgen.org crap about running 1.5 60 foots with radial tires and stock torque arm.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

I hear the guys that have em love em. They should chime in. I'm going to build one here shortly. Got all the rod ends and such coming in the mail. Reason being.... my measly 1.8 60ft time bend my stock torque arm so much that the safety loop I had attached to it moved a good 1.5" and now rubs the exhaust causing horrible noises when I turn.

If you can afford the weight I vote yes. The stock piece is good for that... stock. You'd be suprised how much traction and transfer is lost when the axle rotates and bows that arm substantially.

Schultzy89GTA · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject:

I like mine. Bought it when I had the 700R4. I don't have any empirical data on the traction and seat of the pants tends to favor the $$ spent Wink

My best 60ft to date is a 1.62, 3,850lbs race weight, suspension not set up for drag racing.

-Schultzy

izcain · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the input guys. My only concern is that I want to improve it and I guess that the reason I haven't changed it is BECAUSE I was turning in good 60 foot times. I guess I will have to maybe try it out and see. maybe I should call spohn.....

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:

If you call em they will try to sell you on the control arm relo brackets that you probably don't need.

Think of it this way. You can adjust your pinion angle which is a neccessity for drag racing. Plus it doesn't bend, so all the axle rotation goes directly to planting the tires.

izcain · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject:

Yea that was the main reason I wanted to get it was for adjusting the pinion angle some. I have the lakewood relo's but I am not to sure of how well they work and they have a adjustable rod on the bottom but moving the rod in or out seems to do nothing for me. I am beginning to think that it is just putting it into a bind

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject:

Hmmm Don't know about the lakewood ones.

You really only need relo brackets if your lca geometry is off. Last time I checked, the rake on your car would indicate the geometry to be more ideal for drag racing lol.

izcain · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject:

Yea but by repositioning the lcas it will bite harder. Thats why I did the relo brackets although I think that may be part of my problem since on motor it hooks great but anything else it seems to shock the tires to much or something and it blows them off

I have heard that the jegs arm bites really had because it is a little shorter then the spohns but again just heresay from thirdgen

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject:

Shorter arms are better for drag racing. Longer arms are better for braking. It has to do with the instant center bit.

BMR Fabrication makes a pretty bad ass one. The Trak Pack. It's shorter and runs off it's own weld in crossmember that you weld into your sub frame connectors. Cheaper and lighter than Spohn's too.

Well used to be. Just looked and they got more expensive. But I don't see why one couldn't take the STD pack and run a few gussets in the middle to make it "extreme" without the "extreme" price.

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/F3-suspension.htm

izcain · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:

Now THAT looks like the one I want!!! The only issue I can think of is my dual exhaust but I think that I can make it work with a little work! Thanks for the info!

91RSVert · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:04 am Post subject:

I have a spohn one. I didnt drag race tell this year. I noticed it more in my curvy road driving. The ass end didnt make "sudden" changes, it was more free floating in its movement.

I dislike the front heim joint and pivot. Id like to try and redesign it myself. I have to go down and re-tighten everything 3mo to 9mo.

Dewey316 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:56 am Post subject:

Zack, which lakewoods do you have, the ones that have the bolt on bracket with the 2nd arm? If you do, they will bind up BADLY when you are turning, or even launching. For a car like yours, I would get the BMR T-Arm, and either the spohn or BMR drag-sway bar. You should be launching hard enough, that you may start to drop the right rear/lift the left rear due to torque.

If your lakewoods look like this...

Those do wome wierd things, they act as lader bars, but they will bind up with the torque arm in jounce, and the front bushing when you are turning. I have never liked that design. I would either weld in the bracketry to run ladder bars, or I would stick wiht normal LCA's and a torque-arm.

izcain · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:41 am Post subject:

yea those are the ones. Bought them a long time ago and they have held up well and worked. But I agree with you dewey that there is something really odd happining upon launch. I am frankly surprised I have 60 footed as good as I have maybe I should just change the suspension instead of getting slicks and stick with the mickey radials I have been running.

I already have the billet specialties street lites sitting on the garage floor I am just deciding what tires to run with again

Magman · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject:

Spohn Torque arm here. 700R4 w/driveshaft loop. At the track I set true pinion angle to 3 deg (IIRC), on the street more like 1.5 to 2. I run ET streets at the track and get approx 5-10 foot of tire spin, after a decent burnout with a best of 1.68 60'. LCA angle is at the lowest setting and a few degrees the other direction (+ vice -). Don't have any before/after data, I just know at the track this thing hooks! I was amazed the first pass, bout' gave myself whiplash since I was used to the spinning street tires and wasn't expecting it to launch like it did. Laughing

rjmcgee · The Hammer Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2328

I built my own torque arm based off of a picture of Spohn's, but I changed a couple things that I didn't like about his. I added a rubber isolation under the torque arm mount and also used all three bolt holes that are already in the subframe for the crossmember bolts. I really didn't like having the up and down movement about a foot behind the crossmember bolts. Makes for a lever that puts alot of force on the 2 per side crossmember bolts. I still have that same situation, but with 3 bolts on each side over a 10" span as opposed to 2 bolts over a 4" or 5" span. I also drilled the nut inserts in the subframe out and tapped them to 7/16's.

I don't know if it helped traction or not, I'm way to inconsistant when I get to the track maybe once a year. The main reason for the torque arm was to get the stock torque arm off of the tailhousing on the T5. Makes the weak little transmission live longer IMHO.

GREG DAVIDSON · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject:

the last pic is the car on the ground ?? that looks like a tone of clearance that i dont have on my bird Very Happy

i was wondering bout ground clearance with it being bolted up to the subframe looks like you have plenty nice work looks good

Twilightoptics · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject:

Tanks for posting the pics Rod. It's more food for thought. I've got to build one myself hear soon since I bent the crap out of the stocker!
I do like how you used plate for your gussets instead of more tubing.

It looks like you bushed the lower of the front mounts. Spohn uses a greased through bolt. No bushing. I was thinking about doing a bushing myself...

Dewey316 · Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject:

Paul, I would use a bushing there for sure. I have never liked the greased bolt way that spohn does his mount. I have a feeling that a lot of the noise associated with the spohn TA's are form that mount. A bushing is really the ideal solution there. You get free range of motion there where you need it.

--john

rjmcgee · The Hammer Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2328

There is actually two versions there Paul. The first pic I had used a bushing on the crossmember and a rodend on the torque arm. I just had too much vibration. Then I made a rubber isolator from the rubber mounts off one of the old 2 piece crossmembers I had. On top of that I bought a set of panhard bar poly bushings and turned a couple pieces for them to fit in. Welded one to the torque arm and one on top if the isolater. Then made new shorter side straps.

Something else to watch for, in the first pic I welded the 2" square tubing for the torque arm mount sqare with the crossmember. When installed, the end of the 2" square was a couple inches lower than the crossmember itself. I had to cut it off and angle it up to be level in the car. The back of the crossmember is slanted several degrees down towards the back of the car. I hope this makes some sence. The angles under there are a pain in the ass to work with.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:41 am Post subject:

Great minds think alike. I was going to make an adjustable PHB so I was going to reuse the poly bushing from that for the lower mount.

When installed in the car, I'm guessing the straps/shackles should be straight up at ride height?

Already have a crossmember made but I think I'm going to tap it into the 3rd holes like you did rod.