Cascade Crew

Kage87Z

This is a thread I started on teamcamarotech.com, an older Camaro board.

#1 Today, 01:00 PM
69454
Tech Team

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 86

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I'm about an hour of work away from getting my 69 back on the road.

There were no lights functioning in the rear of the car. I tracked that down to a bad ground (3 bad grounds, actually) and I cleaned that up and got it going.

Only had one brake light come on, though. So, I took the new bulb that wasn't coming on, cleaned the contacts, and put it back in... and had my wife press the brake pedal.

At that point, the power stopped everywhere in the car. That has never happened before.

No ignition; no electric fan, no fuel pump, engine won't turn over from the key and no lights anywhere.

I have no power to or in the fuse block. There are no blown fuses. I have a remote mounted solenoid, and when "arced," the engine turns over easily and immediately (I have started the engine dozens of times, and even drove the car a little yesterday... it's never had problems like this... until now.) I have power to what, I believe, is called the "horn relay." I have power coming out of the horn relay. The battery is charged. And that's it. I have no lights, front or rear, at all. I can't believe that I could do anything in the rear light wiring harness that could cause all power to fail.

I'm absolutely stumped. This thing was wrecked and off the road for two and half years now, and rebuilding this has been one of the most frustrating experiences of my life.

Please help me to find other places to check on the car before I blow it into tiny little Camaro pieces.
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69 Camaro 454/87 Z28 383-TPI
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#2 Today, 01:12 PM
Everett#2390
Gold Member

Drive a '68 ! Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 12,387

Re: Help! No power to the fuse block

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Horn relay has two red wires on buss bar, one to battery via junction block by battery and spliced to go to voltage reg & BAT terminal of alternator, the other goes to firewall connector to power rest of car.

Inside car, red goes to h/lamp switch, ign switch and to BAT fusebox.Look for broken fusible link at horn relay.
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#3 Today, 04:32 PM
Fred Ficarra
Senior Tech

Fred Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seabeck WA
Posts: 2,488

Re: Help! No power to the fuse block

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I can be there in a couple hours. Hold on. Don't kill it!

But first, look under the master cylinder for the electric bulkhead connector. The one that provides all the wires to the fuses. Make sure the retaining screw is tight.
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#4 Today, 08:58 PM
69454
Tech Team

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 87

Re: Help! No power to the fuse block

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I ran 12 volts to the "bat" tab in the fuse box; the ignition, fan and fuel pump came on.

But the engine would only start if I arced it; the lights would come on, but only while the ignition is in the "on" position... and now NO brake lights... but the other tail lights came on with the head lights.

I'll check the fusable links tomorrow.

rjmcgee · The Hammer Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 2328

Sounds alot like ground problems. Do you have good ground straps from engine to chassis? Are they hooked up and tight?

Take jumper cable and go from a grounded bolt on the engine and hook it to the chassis somewhere. If that doesn't help try going from the battery ground to the chassis.

Kage87Z · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:38 am Post subject:

Well, the lights and so forth only being on when the key was in the "on" position and arcing the starter was a big clue: Instead of plugging the 12 volt source wire into "bat", I plugged it on to the accessory tab.

When I move the wire up to the "bat" tab, everything came back on... the way it's supposed to. Before I did that, I tried the jumper cable idea as well... but it didn't make any difference.

That doesn't solve the basic problem of what's causing the issue in the first place, but its a temporary fix for now... and I used a new fusible link on this 10 gage wire as a safety precaution.

blue89 · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:42 am Post subject:

Have you verified 12V to the key and fuse panel? I'd check all of the fusible links and grounds. There aren't very many of either so it should take long.

If you bypassed the problem by jumping a wire and directly feeding the fuse panel it sounds like a fusible link.

Kage87Z · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:25 am Post subject:

Yeah.... I'm grabbing a cheap voltimeter today to do that.

I'm thinking a fusible link as well, because it all went out like someone threw a switch.

QwkTrip · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject:

I don't know if your car is wired similar to my '68 El Camino, but the 12V continous side of the fuse box was powered by a wire with fusible link from the starter battery terminal.

The fuse box has a 12V continuous side and switched side. The switched side comes on with the key switch. If one side is dead then the power supply to that side is broken open somewhere between the fuse block and the battery.

Lights and most other chassis wiring are connected to the 12V continous side of the fuse block so they can be used without the ingition in the run position. A circuit fuse is supposed to blow if there is a problem. The fusible link is a last ditch safey mechanism to keep the car from burning down. Maybe somebody has messed with wiring and you have unprotected circuits on the car.

Kage87Z · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:09 am Post subject:

Well, when I wired the 12 volt to the "BAT" tab, everything comes on and works properly.

I somehow blew the 20A fuse at CLKLTR CTSY (Directly to the left of the "BAT" terminal) and everything died again. I had no idea that replacing that one fuse with the 12 volt wire on the BAT would bring the entire box back to life... but it did.

I took the fuse box apart to look for corrosion... and nothing. So, since I've got it up on my lift, I'll check those wires from the starter with a voltmeter later today.

Thanks for the info!

QwkTrip · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject:

Connecting a 12V source to any circuit will bring the entire bus bar alive that it is connected to. Be careful that you have it set up with proper circuit protection - especially since you seem to be chasing a severe short circuit.

Kage87Z · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject:

Yup.

I added a fusible link to the 10 gage line I'm using to get power to the fuse box.

Now, I'm chasing a psychotic passenger's side front parking light and side marker.

There's power to the socket. There's power IN the socket. But when I put a bulb in there, nothing. (I checked the power with a multimeter)

I thought: "bad ground."

I cleaned the socket out. Double-checked to make sure the socket was grounded.

STILL nothing. Nothing there, and nothing on the side marker.

At this point, since power is getting to and into the socket, I can't see any other alternative except to get another turn signal socket.

I checked the bulb with 12 volts direct from the battery... and it works fine.

I'm starting to hate automotive electricity.

Al Hasse · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject:

If they're like the 3rd gen lights, with no power to the park/turn signal light, the side marker doesn't get power either. The side marker gets power through the park/turn signal filament that is on and ground through the other. When both are on (lights on & turn signal on), the side marker gets no ground, so it flashes opposite at night with lights on.

Your problem does sound like a bad park/turn signal socket. I'm thinking if you fix that, then you'll fix the side marker.

Kage87Z · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:

Well, we've got all the lights working now.

I replaced the parking light/turn signal and then the socket for the side marker... which was all screwed up were the bulb actually went in. But I now have all the lights and all power where is supposed to be.

Next, I trace down the wire problem that caused it all in the first place. But I'm back on the road with this thing, with only little interior stuff left to do.