Cascade Crew

Alphius · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: Destroyed Lifters!

I am currently taking apart and rebuilding a 350 for my shell L69. It was in an '81 Suburban, and the thing was ugly as hell, but ran as smooth as the day she was made. It was owned for 16 years by GTE in Cour 'd alene (sp?), so it was taken care of well for at least a while.

Anyway, I think it had been rebuilt recently cause the oilpan and bottom end are spotless. There are number stamps on the rod and main caps, and the ring lands are almost nonexistent. Very Happy

I dropped the lifters out when I flipped it over on the stand to pull the pan, and cleaned them off. Holy crap! Shocked

Man, I wish you could see these in person. The pictures don't do them any justice at all. 12/16 of the lifters have either deep, bad gouges, or are so worn that they are totally concave. Smashy Smashy

The only thing I can think of is either the cam and lifters were reused and randomly dropped in bores upon rebuild, or new lifters were not allowed to preload with oil before they were put in. I have no idea what's up, but I can't wait to see the cam! Looking through the bores, the cam looks decent, but I bet the edges are rounded off and the lobes are worn when I pull it out. Rolling Eyes

I should get my new cam and lifters in the mail tomorrow, and my heads are being redone, should be done by Friday or earlier.

By early next week, I should have the motor together, and be ready to drop it in the Camaro. I still need a flywheel and exhaust manifolds, but I've got a couple leads.

Sellmanb · Member Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 727 Location: Tigard, OR

Wow, if that ate the cam lobes a little it probably made it seem like it ran smooth, by giving the cam less lift, therefore a smoother idle. I am surprised it didnt clickity clack like a SOB though. Good thing you spotted that Smile

Alphius · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject:

Might also help explain why it seemed so gutless... I just thought it was cause it was a stock 180ish horse motor in a 6000lb. vehicle!

Sellmanb · Member Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 727 Location: Tigard, OR

well... they are pretty gutless lol.

chevymad · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject:

In a company rig it may have seen alot of idling time. This is especially bad for a flat tappet cam. Pre-oiling lifters has nothing to do with that, and really doesnt need to be done. Just make sure you cover the wear surfaces with cam lube. Couple of things that have been going on last couple years may explain it though. One 2 out of 3 US lifter manufacturers shut down. That left alot of companies buying lifters from china. The metallurgy was not very good. I think at least one of the US companies is back in business now. The second thing is in the last 3 or 4 years the government has mandated a different oil chemistry. Zinc and moly used to be in the oil as extreme pressure lubricants specifically for parts like flat tappet cams. But zinc/moly contaminate catalytic convertors. Since the gov also mandated that convertors must last at least 100k miles on warranty, they had to force oil companies to remove the additives. This happened to oil for gasoline engines a few years ago. Oil for diesel engines continued to have the additives until this year. Now it too has had the additve level dropped too low. It's still better then gasoline oil though. These oils would be shell rotella, delo 400 etc.. fleet oils. To see if you're oil is good or not you want to find a government rating of SL or CI. NOT SM or CJ.

I've been using Mobil 1 and been lucky enough to find the old type still in stock at walmart. However as of the first of the year Mobil removed all of the extreme pressure lubes completely.. No idea what they're using to replace em or if it will work.

GM EOS(engine oil supplement, or break in lube) is basically just zinc/moly. So you can add a 1/2 bottle to an oil change to get the additive package back. Also STP contains the additives. The blue bottle has some but its mostly an oil thickener. The red, 4cylinder oil treatment, has a full load of additives and doesn't thicken the oil like the blue bottle stuff.

The red STP is what i'll be using when I can no longer get SL rated oil for my non roller engines.

chevymad · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject:

OH and btw.. If you think those are bad.. on my very first car the cam went flat. The lifters looked alot like yours, but some had actually worn clear through the bottom. Some were so mushroomed that it took vice grips and a 2ft long pry bar to get them out of the block. That motor is the same 327 that i'm currently running in our formy. 22 years later! Even though the oil back then was good, the 94 year old man that owned the car basically idled everywhere. Cam is mainly oiled by splash so no revs no splash.

Alphius · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks chevymad, a lot of what you said makes sense. Sadly, there's really no telling what actually caused my lifters to be like that, or even how old they are. As far as I know, they could be the original lifters from '81 with only a bottom-end rebuild, or the motor could have been rebuilt a year ago with new lifters and bottom-end and they did something wrong.

I need to rent a harmonic dampener puller and get that cam out soon. I can't wait to see what's going on in there. For that matter, I can't wait to get the motor together and in the car! Very Happy

After hearing your take on flat tappet wear and zinc/moly, I think I will be buying some EOS at every oil change. Seems like cheap insurance/wear prevention to me, and that's always good. Can I just get it at the parts store, or do I have to go straight to GM?

Hmmm... revving higher=greater splash=better oiling
Just one more excuse to drive it like it was meant to be driven! Very Happy

chevymad · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject:

EOS is a gm only thing. Thats why i'm going with the red stp myself.

Xophertony · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject:

soooo i am now scared, since i have a roller cam i am fine with using this new oil right?

Twilightoptics · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject:

91RSVert · Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:57 am Post subject:

what chevymad posted was about what I was going too. Most of last year I had been fighting constant cam problems in my old motor. Come to find the info he posted. I just gave up on that motor and went to find something else.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:17 am Post subject:

I've got a big solid cam and haven't had any trouble. I'll look on some spare oil but I use Havoline 10W30.

I had lots of lube when breaking in my cam though. It doesn't Idle much either.... ever....LOL

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject:

wow....that's handy information about the addatives in oil's. Thanks Brandon!

blue89 · Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:12 am Post subject:

The roller lifters are exempt from the above. One more reason to go roller! IIRC, almost all of the newer pushrod cars are roller for that reason. Cheap lifters + crappy oil = Lifter/Cam wear.

BigDaddyVu · Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:01 am Post subject:

looks like someone torqued the rockers alil too much.