Cascade Crew

[Xophertony]

for the 4th time since i have owned it the V6 car has failed to start and run.

i drove it all around today without issue. I left the store to go on lunch and the car failed to start. it cranks. but it won't start. here is what i know so far:

the fuel pressure is good at the fuel rail. it builds pressure and holds it. so no massive fuel leaks or major leaking injectors.
i have spark form the coil (pulled coil wire and sam lightning show)
my 'crank' 'inj1' and 'inj2' fuses are all good. i have yet to check other fuses like ECM or the like.

i had to leave the car at work, but i will be back in the daylight tomorow to diagnose and hopefully fix it. but i am sad.

[Xophertony]

so i got antsy and drove the GTA down to the store to try and figure it out. brought my flashlight.

found a spark plug wire that had come off the cap. plugged it back in. checked the rest of my fuses including ECM fuse, all fine. checked both plugs for fuel injector harness. both fine. checked all plug wires @ plugs, all fine. checked wires going to the coil and to dizzy, all fine. unplugged EST and tried to star car, no dice. got back in and cranked it, it builds oil pressure. looked around ebgine bay for signs of meted wiring, none.

so next on my list of things to do:
pull a plug or two and insure that i am getting spark @ the plugs. put the timing light on it and see if the timing has jumped way out of range or somthing (man i hope that is not it).

then i think i have to pull the cap and inspect it and the rotor for weirdness. then i will crank it and make sure the dizzy spins, so i know it has not split it's shaft or somthing and is just sitting in one place only sparking one plug (can that happen).

also is there a way to tell if my injectors are firing without pulling the injectors out? smell for gas on the plugs?

[aaron_sK]

Try cranking it, and then pull a plug. If it's wet, you're probably missing spark, if it's dry you're missing gas.

After that, you're right about the timing. You might also want to check the cap end of the coil wire. I had a coil wire go out on my IROC and the coil end was fine, but the cap end had corroded.

[BigDaddyVu]

check your fusiable link attached to your starter.

[Twilightoptics]

While it's cranking you can feel the injectors. They'll click.
But you need another person to crank it.

[Xophertony]

[Sellmanb]

Tony, check your hotmail account.

[aaron_sK]

[Sellmanb]

Tony, is xophertony@hotmail.com not your email address anymore? I tried sending you troubleshooting flow charts and some diagrams, but I got a "return to sender" message back. If you want them let me know and I'll try to get them to yah.

[Xophertony]

sure, i would love them.

xophertony@comcast.net

[RSFreak]

Last week when my fuel pump went out, it initially still showed pressure at the fuel rail. Spray some starting fluid into the throttle body and try her again. If she starts briefly, you're obviously not getting fuel.

I had a very weird problem with my old '83 Z28 once. It would crank and every once in a while try to fire but would not start. Turned out that the rotor had come off the shaft! Bolted it back on and she ran like normal.

[Xophertony]

i pulled a plug and it was wet, so i was like WTF? i am getting spark from the coil... so i get ready to pull the dizzy and see whats up, as i am leaning over the engine (knees on radiator) i see the vaccume line coming from the EGR solenoid to the wird thing near the dizzy is unhooked, i hook it back in and the car runs like a top.

what is that thing? and why will the car not run without it?

[Xophertony]

gah.... it just died again. vaccume line still hooked up. i am thinking that whatever that vaccume line hooks into might be the problem.

[Sellmanb]

check your email again then lol

[RSFreak]

[Xophertony]

this vaccume line just used the EGR solinoid as it's source of vaccume. it kind of "t"eed off of the solenoid. the divice i am reffering too is located right next to the coil. it has a vaccume line going into it, and a big plug with 4-6 wires going out. you know what, i got a picture of that area around here somwhere......



hey bobby thanks for the pictures. i actualy own a factory service manual.

[RSFreak]

Have you checked the cap yet? Do the old screwdriver-in-the-plug-wire trick to see if spark is getting to the plugs? I'm really curious now!

[Xophertony]

nah, i had somthing to do tonight and never got the cap off. and when it was not starting spark was NOT getting to the plugs at all. (i used an allen wrench, but a screwdriver would work too)

[RSFreak]

But you had spark at the coil? Sounds like a faulty cap or bad rotor, both easy fixes. BTW, my '89 service manual sheds no light on what that device is that the vaccuum line from the EGR solenoid hooks to.

[Xophertony]

hmmm.... i fuigured it was some type of "vaccume advance". but then thought about it later and realised how silly it would be to have TWO devices advancing spark. i am now thinking it was pure coincidence that the car fired and ran. and you know, as i type this i realise somthing, i had the cap halfway loosend, noticed the vaccume line, hooked it up, tightened the cap and started the car. i bet tinkering with the cap had more to do with it then the vaccume line. 1st thing tomorow i am pulling that cap.