Cascade Crew

Danked · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: Running rich.. or lean..?

A couple days ago, when my camaro still ran, i had a code for the engine running too lean, plus the o2 sensor was reading incorrectly or something. i figured the o2 sensor having been soaked in oil for about a month or so, and probably 100 quarts of oil at least leaking onto it, probably was reading incorrectly. so i went ahead and changed it, car started running fine again, codes went away. then 2 days later, exhaust would pump out massive amounts of black smoke, which i would think engine was running rich. is it possible for oil to leak into the exhaust somehow? therefore causing the black smoke to puff from the exhaust. if so, or if not, what would cause this? im willing to pull my engine if needed and fix whatever is leaking oil. but i would like some info on what i should do before pulling the engine because it sorta is a big job and i dont want to do it if i dont absolutely have too. and btw, there is oil (if looking under the hood) that goes from right under the exhaust manifolds, from the middle of the engine to the tranny, and it is all soaked in im guessing 20 quarts or so. any suggestions?

aaron_sK · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject:

Uhh... damn dude. 100qts? 20qts? If you've ever changed the oil on a car, you'd realize how much of a mess just one gallon of oil can make.

Oil being burnt in exhaust is going to be blue, not really black. Your oil leaks are most likely valve cover gasket problems. Go invest $20 in some rubber gaskets, and torque the bolts down to about 15 ft lbs or somewhere around that.

Has it thrown any codes since you replaced the O2 sensor?

izcain · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject:

Black is normally associated with a rich condition..... Blue smoke would be more along the lines of oil. I would look @ what you have been having problems with originally.... If your O2 was wrong what kind of O2 did you replace it with? Generic or a direct fit? Lots of times the parts place with try to sell you the generic since it is cheaper. These are great for some cars but a direct fit is a much better quality if your looking for oem stuff. I would have the car hooked up to the scanner and see is the O2's are lazy in the cross counts and check all your normal everyday tune-up items. Also what Asdfga3 said above, check for the oil leaking externally, maybe valve cover gaskets (common problem) or possibly something else.

Danked · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:

i first suspected valve cover leaks, but it is more inside the engine than that. as for the o2 sensor, i pulled one off the 2.8L at the junk yard and stuck it on mine, no codes have popped up yet. but it is only a matter of time before this sensor is ruined from the massive amount of oil thats going to be splattered upon it in the very near future.

QwkTrip · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:54 am Post subject:

If you are burning oil through the exhaust then you will have a dark smoke with a bluish tinge. It it is just plain black then it is likely running rich. If it smells like burning oil, then you also have an oil leak.

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:49 am Post subject:

Try pulling the exhaust manifolds off of the engine. Usually the highest point that you can see oil will be where the leak is. Oil will likely travel down and back.

While you have your manifolds off, pull your plugs too. If there is as much oil getting into the engine as you claim, they will be badly fouled.

I don't know how much the 3.1 O2 sensor is, but the one for my L98 was under $20 with the Ian-deal. Very Happy

Not worth trying to save a couple bucks here, just buy OEM spec stuff.

*Edit: BTW, how are you arriving at your figures for quarts of oil being used? Are you literally adding several cases of oil to your car per day?

Danked · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject:

i add aprox 1 case of oil per 24 hour period. the oil is on the back side of the engine, where the engine and tranny meets, but about at the height level of the manifolds. i will check the plugs. im sure these plugs are about worn out. need to go to e-burg and get mine outta my other engine since i just bought. ill post back once i pull plugs and manifolds.

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject:

Hmm.... intake manifold rear gasket? Confused

Dewey316 · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

Does the oil leak out, while you are just sitting there? if your are losing that bloody much oil, you should be able to see it spraying out. a whole case is a lot of oil.

QwkTrip · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

Al Hasse · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject:

chevymad · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

Good call Al, on the 2.8 v/6s the distributor is under full oil pressure. When that O-ring hardens up you get a major leak. I've changed many many o-rings over the years.

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject:

Is it the same on the 3.1 as well? I didn't know they had so many problems with that.

chevymad · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject:

Ya, it runs in the 60* family. Even on the distributorless motors they still have a plug that runs the oil pump. The plug also has the same O-ring. Those motors are a bigger pita though because the plenum/tb is in the way of pulling the plug.

Danked · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject:

it only leaks when the engine is running, so i ran it, and crawled under, cant see exactly where it leaks from being the entire bottom half of the engine is completely soaked in oil. its not burning it, its just leaking it. all i can see is drip drip drip every half second or so, from i counted an amazing 19 spots. its not in the exhaust manifolds and the spark plugs are no more blacker than they should be. which was a relief. next is oil pan gasket, because im sure that does need to be replaced. and the oil pan drain bolt thing is bent almost sideways, so im looking at a new oil pan also. and yes, i need a quart of oil about every 30-45 min. there is also a very loud ticking noise coming from the bottom of the engine. sounds like a lifter, but its extremely loud, and its not a top-end sound.

izcain · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:

A lifter is top end noise, Rod knock or piston slap something along those lines is a bottom end noise. Sounds like you got a whole world of problems. I wouldn't be going on any long road trips with that car! Shocked

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject:

Heh. At this point I would not even be starting the car. A damn two-dollar seal could cost you a $400 longblock when it's leaking that fast.

Xophertony · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject:

THIS is why it sucks to be on such a tight budget. normally you do not install a used engine of unknown origin with out tearing it down and rebuilding it first. if you are spending this much on oil you must have the dough, this time do it right. buy a 3.4 longblock and swap over all your 2.8 stuff onto it, including ALL NEW seals, and any difficult to change sensors. i would also throw a new/remanufactured distributor in there as well. mine is all rusty on my 2.8.

Quasi-Traction · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:02 am Post subject:

so lemmie get this straight...........you have a severe oil leak, your transmission slips between the 2-3 shift, you may or may not be running pig rich, and the drivers fender has a giant dent in it.............

I dunno dude, but I think its time to consider a new car.

Danked · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:03 am Post subject:

cant afford new car. but im getting really fricken tired of ppl ripping me off. first i buy a pos engine and have it installed for $1150. then the skylark i bought for $350 doesnt even have a heater or a/c that works at all. so now, i have to fricken drive the skylark all winter, while tearing my new engine down completely and rebuild it, with no money at all. i think i need too get ahold of a lawyer or something because this is bs.

and no quasi, ive spent about $5,000 on this car already, im not giving up now. that would be about pointless.