Cascade Crew

[aaron_sK]

No, this isn't another "can I drop a 450whp engine in front of my T-5 and race it with slicks?" topic. For Tony, Rod, and anyone else running a stock T-5, how much driving abuse will those trannies take? I'd hate to do the swap, and kill it power shifting my first time out. I do tend to shift very fast, although it's been a few years since I drove a stick on the street, so I'm pretty rusty.

Right now I haven't dynoed my current setup, but the butt-dyno says that that bolt-on L98 is probably somewhere around 250/330 on it's best day. I have 3.73's out back, and I never run slicks on it, so I'm not as worried about drivetrain shock.

TGO seems split about down the middle between guys like Rod who race with T-5's without problems, and guys who blew their trans within a few months.

[rjmcgee]

I have a therory about T5's in these cars. Get the torque arm off the back of the tranny and hook it to the crossmember instead. I think that many of the 200 - 300 rwhp cars have failures due to case flex. I'm sure that somewhere in the 300 - 400 rwhp you are getting on thin ice for the little transmission. I built my own crossmember and torque arm off of a picture of Spohn's unit after I had to replace my first transmission that only had a couple thousand miles on it. It didn't blow apart, just started having some serious shifting issues. My spare tranny came out of an 86 that must have had well over 100,000 miles on it. It's a non world class and has been flawless for two years now. I drive it very hard and abuse the tranny as I see fit. I always use the clutch when shifting and just shift as fast as possible. Another thing I heard that made sence was to use an aftermarket shifter with stops, something about overshifting it, not real sure but it made sence. I have the B&M shifter and it works fine, but the Pro 5.0 seems better.

Over all I'm happy with the transmission. Unless I get to a point where it breaks trannys often I can't justify the money for a T56 or Tremec. Plus these little bastards are alot lighter and probably have less parasitic (sp) power loss than the bigger and stronger ones. This is just my experiance in my own car, maybe I have just been lucky.

This is the torque arm set up I built, I think there are other styles out there that may or may not be easier or cheaper.

[aaron_sK]

So did you buy a Spohn unit and modify it to run on the crossmember, or is that 100% custom work? Looks like a real nice job either way.

[Xophertony]

it is a full-custom job. he used a picture of the spohn unit and it is almost a "clone".

hmmm... well, i only have about one thousand miles on mine so far. but i have broken the tires loose a few times now and the tranny seems fine. i have only had two issues;

1. since i do not yet have a pro-5.0 or B&M shifter i am afraid to slam shift it, and a few times have only partialy shifted into first, causing the tranny to SLAM out of gear as i start to let the clutch out. thankfully all 3 of these have occured during regular driving and i was not putting any real power to it.

2. my 3rd gear synchro is out.


rod, i plan on doing somthing similar, only we are going the "poor man's" route. paul and i are going to weld the factory tourque arem mount to the factory trannsmission crossmemeber. it won't be as strong as yours, or as blue and shiny. but it should save my tranny from some unnessisary abuse.

[rjmcgee]

I think that will work great if it all fits where you want it. It gets kinda tight beside the transmission down there. I kinda wanted to build the cross member for a couple reasons, one being the ability to use 3 bolts per side instead of just the two. I also drilled and tapped all the crossmember bolts out to 7/16's since a couple of mine were 80% stripped.

[aaron_sK]

Hmm... thanks for the info guys, but the problem is that having to mess with the crossmember and trq. arm means that my two main reasons for doing the swap (cheap and easy) are offset by the trouble of buying or building a new arm.

[Xophertony]

i am rolling with the stock setup now and it all works fine.

[Dewey316]

What does that have to do with this discussion Tony? Or did you once again, feel the need to post something unrelated, just to post?

I think there is something to getting the TA mount off the tranny, the mustang guys are running MUCH faster times on T5's than the f-body crowd is. The only diffrences are the lack of a TA mount, and a slightly diffrent casing (the WC cases are very similar).

Some of the guys who build this up a bit, do some other tricks. They use a diffrent bearing retainer plate on the front, and a couple other small improvements.

Driving style will also make a big diffrence, treat it nice, it will treat you nice. Power-shift 3rd gear all the time, at 6k, your going to break it.

--John

[Xophertony]

[Dewey316]

Did you read the part about power levels? I read the entire thread, did you bother to?

I also contributed to the discussion, with information about how people ugrade T5's, and also a common reason for failer? Did you.

You contributed nothing, guess what Tony, we know that a stock T5, works behind a stock motor. That is not news to anyone.

[Xophertony]

wow john. i guess you are aright. i realy am an asshole.


BACK TO TOPIC AT HAND
on another note, i actualy just noticed somthing while researching* the "power levels" the T5 handles. in 1992 the TPI305 put out 230/300, and was available with the WC-T5, in 1988 the L98 TPI350 was rated at 230/330 and was not available with a T5 (non-WC). so i am barely over the stock #s for the WC-T5. of course that is for the STOCK numbers. now, regardless of what john my think, my engine is not all stock. incase anyone wants to know the 1992 L98 was rated at 245/345.

source= TGO "tech data".

[Dewey316]

Remeber, I have a WCT5, not a standard.

The crossmember isn't the issue, the cross memeber is not what it causing the case flex. It is the torque arm. I am still using the stock arm, but I also drive my car VERY nice, even at the track when I am nice to it, and I don't powershift it, because I know how fragile these tranny's are.

The point that EVERYONE misses, is that these those don't have a specific power number. The weight of the car, effects it, the RPM its spinning effect it, the driver is the biggest peice. You abuse it, it will break, even behind a stock motor. You drive it nice, you can get it to hold up to some power, for a period of time (it will eventualy let go, I know mine will let go one of these day's).

[Dewey316]

I am using the stock mount, in the stock location.

I only put down about 230rwhp N/A, I only just to the 320-330hp range on the nitrous, so it doesn't see it much.

Then, the most common failure, is 3rd gear going, under a hard, high RPM shifting. So I make sure I am nice when I hit third and don't put too much shock on it.

[rjmcgee]

[Dewey316]

I would guess your rear end gernades before the T5.

What are you disagreeing with me about? That not abusing it as hard, will help the longevity? That is common sense. I agree'ed that taking the TA off the housing is a good idea, I pointed out that the mustangs did this stock, and don't have nearly the issues.

I can't say I've ever tossed 3rd gear out of the side of my case , I am relaying what seems to be the norm in both the mustang and f-body applications for T5's, in that 3rd gear is the most common failure. Its not my data.

I think you and I agree on this, and in the fact, that you could buy 5 T5's, and break them all for the cost of a T56, if you want to row the gears, and are on a budget, it is the way to go. You have to remeber what it is though, it is not bullet proof.

[rjmcgee]

OK fine, now I'll agree with you.

The point I'm trying to make is that they are not egg's. You don't have to baby them.

Now your also putting the most power through a T5 so your results may vary from mine.

[Dewey316]

Isn't this your second T5 though.

[aaron_sK]

Man, this really set you guys off.

My theory was that if I could get a T5 and related swap parts for under $600, install it over the Winter, and then beat on it for a year or two then all would be fine. But throw in the price of a Spohn unit (since my welding skills are pathetic at best) and that theory kinda fails.

As for babying it like Tony, I'd rather save up the cash and do it right if that's how I'd have to drive. I do shift very fast, and I tend to not pull the clutch out all the way each time.... If you can't drive it hard, then driving a Camaro is a bit pointless isn't it?

[Quasi-Traction]

I think there's a lot of reasons why the stock T-5's seem to have such issues compared to the T-5's in Foxbody Chassis. Having driven and been under both cars, I noticed two big differences:

1) The Mustang's shifter has a "s" shaped bend near the base and most of the lever at a straight up angle, as opposed to Camaro's which have about a 25 degree bend at the base and angle toward the rear of the car. I'm kind of with Rod in something about the stock shifter on our cars makes the "up" gears (1,3,5) Prone to being overshifted. It might be the stops, it might be the angle, I dont know. I'd be intrested in comparing the length of travel for the internal linkage rods between the Ford (Tremec) T-5 and the GM (Borg Warner) T-5. It might also be that Tremec was using better internals than Borg Warner.

2) The Mustang transmission mounts straight in, as opposed to sitting at a slight angle towards the drivers side like Camaro/Firebird does. My theory is that it probably puts a bit of side load on the spring loaded gate(or improperly wears the shafts which hold the syncronizer forks), this might also be why there is sometimes a periodical grind when shifting into reverse.

I hope this helps. And I hope John doesn't jump down my throat for throwing a bunch of unsupported gobblitygook out there.

[rjmcgee]