Cascade Crew

aaron_sK · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Questions on T-56 swap

Alright guys, after quite a bit of reading on different swaps, I'm starting to seriously like the 94-97 T-56 ratio and torque rating, especially with my high rear-end gears. I've been reading up on everything I could find on TGO and elsewhere about the swap, but there are still a few things up in the air.

Starter: I've heard a lot of conflicting info on this, everything from you have to run a mini-starter, to the stock automatic style will fit fine. My starter works perfectly, so I'd rather not touch it if I don't have too.

Interior console: Can I use a 3rd gen manual console with the T-56, or is it too far back?

Pedals: Do you need a 4th gen pedal setup, or can you run 3rd gen pedals with a 4th gen cylinder?

New parts vs. Boneyard: I know I'm in for at least a new pilot bearing, is it with replacing anything else while it's torn apart?

Cable vs. electric VSS: My Camaro still has the old school style cable driven speedo. Would it be cheaper and easier just to buy a later-style speedo assembyl, install it in my gauge cluster, and run the electronic VSS, or what?

Torque converter lockup: Is it bad to just tape over that and leave it under the car?

Twilightoptics · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Questions on T-56 swap

I found the LS1 version to be better and cheaper in the long run. If I were you I'd go that route, I did, and love it. You use ALL thirdgen bellhousing/clutch parts (save pilot bearing) including the clutch which makes a stocker replacement $150 rather than $300+ for the LT1 style... or $300 for a performance vs $550 for a centerforce LT1 style. Otherwise to answer your questions.

Starter: I've heard a lot of conflicting info on this, everything from you have to run a mini-starter, to the stock automatic style will fit fine. My starter works perfectly, so I'd rather not touch it if I don't have too.

You'll need a thirdgen manual transmission starter. An auto starter is too big. Mini starters work fine. Get a starter from a 4th gen say '94 with a stick. It's a "mini" type starter but not as small. Got mine lifetime warrenty for $110. Thirdgen manual starter is like $70-90 and doesn't have the torque the newer one does. Car never started as good till I got the new one.

Interior console: Can I use a 3rd gen manual console with the T-56, or is it too far back?

You can use your console. If you go LS1 you'll need to build a small bracket to relocate the shifter stick. As far as I know the LT1 setup puts the shifter back a litte but not enough to interfere.

Pedals: Do you need a 4th gen pedal setup, or can you run 3rd gen pedals with a 4th gen cylinder?

LT1 style - 3rdgen Pedals, 4th gen hydraulics. IIRC you can use a 3rd gen master, but don't quote me.
LS1 Style - 3rdgen pedals, 3rd gen hydraulics.

New parts vs. Boneyard: I know I'm in for at least a new pilot bearing, is it with replacing anything else while it's torn apart?

Depending on what you're getting with your swap. I'd get a new clutch, maybe flywheel, pilot, throwout, and I only use new hydraulics. Those things sit in the junk yard and rust and get nasty and are nasty. No, buy new for the money, and not have to worry, and handle new parts.

Cable vs. electric VSS: My Camaro still has the old school style cable driven speedo. Would it be cheaper and easier just to buy a later-style speedo assembyl, install it in my gauge cluster, and run the electronic VSS, or what?

As far as I know there isn't a provision for cable>electric. So you'll need an electric speedo of some sort, which is up to you, and then if it's not programable you'll need like the $350 box that converts the signal for Vss.

Lots of info on this on tgo, since the stock ECM looks at the VSS also that is sent from the back of our cable driven speedos.

Torque converter lockup: Is it bad to just tape over that and leave it under the car?[

Mine is still under the car.

aaron_sK · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject:

Wierd. I read that the LS1 wasn't compatable with the older-style clutch. So for the cash, it's better to get an LS1 T-56, and then use the hydraulics, pedal setup, and starter from a 3rd gen T-5.

Edit: Bashy Bashy

Details. I read this on Skulte.com:

Xophertony · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject:

dakota digital makes a box that takes a Vss signal and turns a cable. it is like $300+. but if you realy are in love with your cable driven speedo it is an option.

aaron_sK · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject:

I know, I saw the link on TGO. It's not really the route I want to go unless I have to. My current cable speedo is a POS.

I was actually wondering two things:

1) Is it possibly to buy just the electronic speedo (not the full gauge cluster) from either an 87+ Bird or a 90+ Camaro, install it in my current cluster, and wire it up to the new trans and the current ECU, or will that be a problem?

2) If I just pull the speedo cable and leave it hanging, what will this do to the ECU? I know some cars can be seriously FUBARed without a VSS, but I don't know how it would affect an F-body.

Xophertony · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject:

the bird and maro speedos ARE NOT compatable. you would need to swap an entire bird dash into your car (which would be both a drastic improvement and alot of work)

as far as the Camaro ones, i believe 1990 was the year they went to electric speedos (way behind pontiacs 1986 electric date) and from what i have heard you must also swap the entire dash if you change out the clusters, as the clusters are too different to fit. i do not know if the speedos will swap between a pre-electric cluster and a post electric cluster. one of the camaro guys will have to take over and fill in this blank.

aaron_sK · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject:

Meh. Frankly, if I could just yank the speedo cable and worry about it later I would. My damn speedo is so far off now (about +15% mph) that I don't even really pay attention to it.

*Edit: BTW, is it possible to pull off the swap for around $1K, assuming I do all the work myself, or am I looking at a lot more?

*Edit 2: Paul, what did you end up doing about the driveshaft? That BS is starting to worry me, because I have an LS1 aluminum driveshaft in there right now.

iansane · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject:

My stock starter works.

I'd definately go ls1 trans if I were doing it over. That adapter plate would be ideal.

You could just run an autometer speedo in your stock dash.

aaron_sK · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject:

Cool. Ian, how much did you say the swap ended up coming to, around $1500, right?

iansane · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject:

Probably more than that with MC and shat. I'm adding some more now that I'm ditching the adapter bracket on my MC finally. But mine uses that weird Weir Hot Rod adapter and hydro TO bearing which was more work that it was worth in a chassis like this.

Twilightoptics · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject:

Depends on how much you get the trans for and what you do. I bought the lakewood scattershield for $400, and you can't get a scatter shield for an lt1 style without a huge headache. You DO NOT need to replace the input shaft.

I got my trans for $1200 shipped. The LS1 trans are a little more spendy but you gain the cost back in the parts you save money on.

I bought all SFI parts and new parts so it ended up costing over $2000.

If you went stock T-5 Parts (all clutch setup, flywheel, bellhousing) You'll need the trans, McCleod adapter plate and pilot bearing (I can look up the part number), crossmember, the standard T56 one might work but I'm not sure. At first it didn't look like Ian's would work for me so I made my own but now it looks the same, and to shorten your driveline an inch (but measure before you take it in) Should run you $100 to have that mod done if you have a steel driveline.

Ian went LT1 with the super expensive new style hydraulic throwout bearing. I'm using a clutch fork on a standard type T5 bellhousing (the lakewood, but the stock T5 one works)