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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | I don't need MS anymore because I ended up with a stock TII Rotary ecu/wiring that's upgraded.... but I still kinda want to!
Looks like there is the good info on setting it up for a rotary and it might make my wiring easier than hacking into this gnarly harness.
Hmm...... Oh well, gotta get a turbo and the motor prep finished... just as soon as I move!
Good Work Gabe! |
Thanks!
Are you going to be running a 13b with the TII setup? That's basically an FC swap in that case, right? Sounds like fun. I've always like RX7s, in fact when I was looking for my first car the choice was between an FC and a thirdgen Camaro. 
Keep in mind the cardinal law of turbo rotaries:
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84 Camaro Z28 - LS1/T56
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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LOL Yeah that's what I'm doing. I haven't found an answer if the MS can use the rotary Knock Sensor stuff yet though.
I've got the motor and all the mazda stuff but it's such a junky integrated system I think I'm going to ditch it and sell those parts off. It should fund the MS just fine. They run a ghetto version of a MAF they call the air flow meter. It works like edelbrock carb secondaries. It's dumb and they are DAMN expensive.
Is there a place to get tried and true base maps for stock engines?
Firmware is just the integrated software on the ECU right? It doesn't have anything to do with the tune....?
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Twilightoptics wrote: | LOL Yeah that's what I'm doing. I haven't found an answer if the MS can use the rotary Knock Sensor stuff yet though.
I've got the motor and all the mazda stuff but it's such a junky integrated system I think I'm going to ditch it and sell those parts off. It should fund the MS just fine. They run a ghetto version of a MAF they call the air flow meter. It works like edelbrock carb secondaries. It's dumb and they are DAMN expensive.
Is there a place to get tried and true base maps for stock engines?
Firmware is just the integrated software on the ECU right? It doesn't have anything to do with the tune....? |
MS understands a knock sensor signal that's been translated by an ESC module or equivalent. For instance, a GM ESC outputs 8-10V as long as there is no knock, then pulls the signal to ground momentarily for every knock event, and that's the kind of knock logic that MS understands. I have no clue how the rotary knock stuff works, but if it's similar it should work. If it's like later GM systems where the ECU understands and decodes the raw knock sensor signal (integrated ESC), then that won't work.
There is this though, it may be an option, though I've heard it's finicky to set up:
http://www.viatrack.ca/
AFMs are lame-o big time.
There's no central source for "base maps" but you may be able to find something on an RX7 enthusiast forum or on http://msruns.com/. I don't know. I always have liked starting from scratch on tuning because I feel that I gain a better understanding of the quirks of the engine that way; I've never really started with someone else's tune and simply modified it.
Firmware is the software, you're correct. The tune is independent from the firmware. However, a tune that was written and designed in one family of the firmware cannot be loaded on a different version. The individual tables (VE, Spark, AFR) can be exported and re-imported on a different version, but not the entire tune. By different family, I mean they are separated like this:
MS1
MS1/Extra
MS2
MS2/Extra
MS3
The "Extra" versions typically include many of the features that made it into the next processor family, for instance MS2/Extra was sort of a testbed for many of the features that are now part of MS3.
So, I am planning on upgrading my standard MS2 to MS2/Extra in my Camaro. I will not be able to import my tune (stored in a *.msq file on my PC) into the MS2/Extra firmware. I will have to export my tables and reimport in Extra after setting up all the constants and warmup tables etc. Then of course I'll have a lot of tuning to do since I'm switching heads. 
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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That all makes sense.
Since I have no idea how the rotary should be set up, it'd be nice to find someone that knows, that made a tune for a stock TII motor.
The TII uses a knock module, and a sensor. I have no idea what the output is though.
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aaron_sK
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Back in beautiful Tacompton
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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Leejo2005
Member
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 466
Location: Kennewick
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| When you did your MS-2 on your Camaro did you make a new harness or did you use the TPI adapter plate? |
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Leejo2005 wrote: | | When you did your MS-2 on your Camaro did you make a new harness or did you use the TPI adapter plate? |
I made a new harness. I had a MAF TPI harness, but I wanted to run several things differently than GM did. I did harvest connectors from the MAF harness however.
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Leejo2005
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Location: Kennewick
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| If and when I do it, I'll probably do the same. The wiring is over 20 years old and not getting any newer. |
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Aaron cake ran Ms1 and guessed at ms2. I think I want ms2 extra.
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:15 am Post subject: |
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He does have VE and Timing maps on that MS2 page for a 13b turbo at up to 20ish psi.
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Alright. I'm doing it. I'll need your help though!
As soon as I get everything moved, I'll get to work on it and sell the stock ECM and parts.
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Badass! I'm in.
Where are you moving to?
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RSFreak
The other "John"
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2946
Location: Renton
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, I have an extra TPI laying around and a carbed small block... All I would have to do is upgrade the fuel system to stock LB9 or better and Megasquirt it! 
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Looking like Auburn.
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chevymad
Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5477
1987 Pontiac Formula
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow.. looks like this is the cool thing to do LOL I'm seriously debating it myself. Probably for the 74 though.. |
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Twilightoptics
Hardcore (12sec Club)
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 9191
Location: Auburn , WA
1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if it's the "cool" thing to do... but with no one having concise knowledge about what the TII ECM needs and doesn't need... it just sounds easier to get rid of the pig and it's fuel pump relay resistor nonsense and needing a special orifice for the MAP sensor or the map sensor reads erratically........
Yeah....
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chevymad
Master B
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5477
1987 Pontiac Formula
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I definatly see why you'd do it Paul. Just mean that with Gabe, Aaron, you, possibly me and/or John.. It seems to be the crew thing at the moment.
I've been thinking about efi for a long time and I like electronic projects, so this might be fun. But i'm also cheap as hell.. so we'll see.  |
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jchaussee
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Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 1318
Location: renton
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| This has been an interesting read. I don't know enough about efi or management of it, bit if I do get the hang of it, nothing seems better then to be able to fine tune it yourself. I have read a bit about megasquirt on the intraweb since this post and I find it pretty cool. |
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Alphius
Peanut
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Grand Mound
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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OK, a trip to Rat Shack and an hour or so of work and the MegaSquirt is completely done. No more pictures (the additional circuits were pretty boring) but I am happy to say it is all packed up and ready to go!
Now Aaron and I just need to build a wiring harness and get it all attached to the engine. I kind of guesstimated a decent base map for the system and programmed everything in, so hopefully it'll fire and run without too much fiddling with the tune.
Brandon, I know you would enjoy a MegaSquirt.
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