Cascade Crew

Schultzy89GTA · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject:

... And better news John, there is more power in there. Might never have known if you didn't dyno!

-Schultzy

aaron_sK · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject:

RSFreak · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject:

91camaro_rs · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject:

So I went to the drift office today to dyno, the guy there loved my car cause he used to have a 3rd gen. Went with a bunch of cobalts, 2 5th gens a subie, gto, and some others

I ran 192 horse and 292 torque, but my AFR was 10.0...the guy said it was super rich and if I fix that it will free up some power

How do I go about adjusting my AFR on tunerpro?

RSFreak · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject:

Dewey316 · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject:

iansane · Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject:

Alphius · Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:00 am Post subject:

RSFreak · Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:36 am Post subject:

iansane · Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject:

91camaro_rs · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:54 am Post subject:

The block learn (BLM) has to do with the AFR doesnt it? my blm is like always at 160 and under gradual throttle it drops to about 145. under quick throttle it just kinda bounces up and down.

i looked at some older datalogs from when i didnt have the codes all gone and it was stuck in open loop all the time and the BLM was pretty much constantly at 128

which "PE table" on tuner pro should i be looking at?

i attached my datalog info

Alphius · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject:

BLM stand for Block Learn Multiplier.

It will only be adjusted by the ECU when the car is running in closed loop, the reason for that is the ECU uses the O2 sensor to trim that value up and down via O2 sensor feedback. If the number is above 128, that means your ECU has decided from O2 feedback that the car is running lean and must be richened. Below 128 is a rich car tuning itself more lean. You want to see usually less than 5% above or below on the BLM, which would be roughly between 121 and 135. The minimum and maximum values are set in the tune, however I don't know what they are for a stock tune. I suspect that 160 is the max, because 160 would be adding exactly 25% more fuel than the stock table calls for, which seems like a reasonable spot for GM to limit the BLM adjustment. Keep in mind that just because your ECU thinks you are running lean, that does not mean you actually are, it could be a bad O2 sensor or a bad O2 placement as well. A missing cylinder will also cause an O2 sensor to read lean because missing causes there to be extra unburned oxygen in the exhaust stream.

Also, do thirdgens have INT? That is basically the same thing but it is more of a short range adjustment that responds very quickly. It may be better for tuning once you're closer on the BLMs. The BLM is a long-term number, i.e. it takes a comparatively long time of too rich or too lean to adjust it up and down.

They are both correlated with AFR in the sense that a narrowband O2 knows where stoich is, but nothing else. If the number is consistently above 128, you know that your ECU thinks you are too lean, but you don't know for sure what AFR it's actually running at.

aaron_sK · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject:

What's the O2 reading when the BLM's are maxed out? It needs to be switching quickly around 500mv or whatever. If it's constantly high or low, or sluggish, replace it. They tend to die a lot anyway and you were dumping gas and coolant on to yours IIRC.

Don't buy a Bosch unit when you get a new one either. Go NTK or Delco.

Also, why is that datalog an Excel file? Shrug

91camaro_rs · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject:

wish i read your post before i bought a new bosch sensor Embarassed

oh well...anyway so what do you mean by when the blm is maxed out? cause it never really goes above 160, only goes down a tiny bit

and it is an excel file cause i couldnt figure out how to get it so you guys could see it and i got it in a .csv and it wouldnt work on this site so i made it a excel file

Twilightoptics · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject:

160 is maxed out.

It's max lean.

Either your tune is WAY off, your O2 is shot, or your fuel pressure is too low.

91camaro_rs · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:06 am Post subject:

o2 sensor is new as of yesterday

gonna get the fuel pressure checked and also i posted this up on TGO and this is how someone told me to go about tuning it...can you tell me if this is right or not?

"Now you can then watch as the data strolls by that you recorded. Click on the play arrows like you are watching video. I usually take the pointer and slide it back an forth to show where the worst biggest peaks and valleys are. Start with them.

Note where the BLM's are lowest first, below 128. The reason is that too lean is worse than too rich. LEAN FRIES MOTORS, RICH WASTES GAS. So while you are there, might as well look for the lean spots as well. Take the BLM for a given rpm/kpa bad spot. Divide it by 128, and write the answer down. Take the fuel table for the same rpm/kpa and divide that number by wrote you wrote down. this is the new number that goes bacl into your fuel map
ex. 1200 rpm and 60kpa reads BLM of 148, 148/128=1.15 Take the number in your fuel table for 1200rpm/60kpa (imagine it said 65) 65/1.15= 56.5 put that in the box, this just lowered your rich fuel at that point.

Check for, and do several of these around the same area like 1100/55 1200/70, 1400 at 60 and you'll get a picture of that whole area.

Go to the graph function next and all your new points will look like peaks and valleys. This gives you a great visual on how far out of whack things are in that area. Smooth the areas around those points by using your arrow at any given point. While holding the left click button down you can raise or lower any point on the graph. Don't forget to save the file as a different name, maybe include the date. Load your ECM with the new Bin.
"

Twilightoptics · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject:

No no no.

below 128 means the motor is running rich.

above 128 means the motor is running lean.

Alphius · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject:

91camaro_rs · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:11 pm Post subject:

i have a Walbro 255 Liter per hour pump,

above means its lean but that makes the motor use more gas making it rich right?

ok so he got it backwards put the process of adjusting that he mentioned is that the right way to do it?

Twilightoptics · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject:

Not at all.

Because the narrow band O2 is not that accurate. Just because the BLM is 5% above 14.7 doesn't mean the ACTUAL fueling is 5% rich. All the O2 can tell you, is if you are 14.7:1 or not. Not how much leaner or richer the engine is running. Just if it's Lean or if it's rich.

Make bigger adjustments to the outlier readings and smaller adjustments to the ones close to 128. Don't bother with anything between 120-140 right now. Just get the outers close then continue to fine tune.