Cascade Crew

[Dewey316]

So, the other thread wasn't getting much attention. Link to it for info if you want, it is here.

<< Soap box >>

My take on the new camaro.

No Sir, I do not like it.

Now, I am a f-body nut, thru and thru. All of us are, we have to be, to hang on to our relics. We are probably worse than nuts, as we actualy dump untold ammounts of money into them. Don't get me wrong, I was hoping the f-body would come back, but, I also said in 2002, that I only wanted to see a new f-car, if it was an f-car.

This new car, does not do it for me. The car doesn't stick to what made the f-body, well, an f-body.

The car IMNSHO, misses its mark. It falls into a middle ground between cars, that I would liken to the sahara desert. What GM has done, is built a retro-styled car, that fails to deliver what they need. If I wanted a fast, sleek, V8 powered car, with IRS. I would buy a vette. If I wanted a 4 or 5 seater, with a v8, and IRS, I would buy a GTO. If I wanted to look good, have a heavy, but capable performer, CTS-V. What does the new Camaro get me, besides the nameplate? In a word. Nothing.

Mark my words, this car will be somewhere north of $30K. GM is going to do the same stuff they did with so many other cars, like the SSR. They will be convinced that their car is worth a lot more money than it is. Because, frankly, they put money into the wrong part of the car.

GM needed to make a simple, muscle car. Nothing fancy, Stick with a solid rear axle, a V8, a modest yet usefull interior, and a clean body. Instead, we have a IRS rear, a interior that looks like something out of the Mars rover, and a front end, that looks like it got bitch slapped, then beaten with the ugly stick. The nose of this car looks like a bastard child, of the Vette, the GTO, and the -V. They could not have made it worse.

GM got beat the punch with the mustang. They dropped the syling ball, on the 4th 1/2 gen LS1 f-cars. They failed to see what the market needs, and they have done it again. They are going to jump into the retro pony-car market, 5 years after Ford did this. When they do, that are not even going to bring a pony car with them.

If anyone from GM is listening, build something that people want. Do you really think Ford is moving that many mustangs, because of the name plate alone? NO. They sell so many, because they realised what it is the market wants. There is not a market for this Camaro.

If the car was "cute" they might sell a million v6 versions, just like Ford has done with the mustang. The other reasons to buy a "peformance" car, are covered, and quite frankly, better covered, by other GM offerings. Here my friends in the reciept for selling the Camaro again.

Simple. Retro. Cheap.

Those are the markets that no one has an offering for. Make it a solid axle, pushrod V8, no 22" blinging wheels, Sell it for $25k or less. Make the whole car resemble the 69 Z. Don't worry so much about incorporating all the latest craze in GM brand que's. The egg crate lower grill it has, trying to be a cadillac, it just goddy. The main grill looks like EVERY truck GM made 4 years ago. The little scoop, screams Z06, but in a cheap and tacky way.

I guess that is it. Just figured I would start the talk about the new car. I want to see other opinions, I hope people disagree with me. I hope they sell millions of them. But right now, color me unimpressed.

--The Lama.


<< END soapbox >>

[NHRA427]

I agree with everything you said. They had some older pics out of the car and it looked better then the real one they made. All i hope for is the production car wont look like the concept. Alot of times the concept is alot worse then the real car.

[iansane]

[psychologist] And how does that make you feel?[/psychologist]


I like it as a car. Looks pretty cool to me and looks to be a pretty capable performing if they do things right.

Doesn't look like a next gen camaro should though. Instead of a progression from the 4thgen to something sleaker, sportier, wishfully lighter and more agile this looks more like a blandly styled two door coupe (although so does the first gen.) This car looks like it could have a four door counterpart. Which I don't think the camaro should.

It should be cheap, fast, light and I doubt GM will incorporate any of those in their designs.

[rjmcgee]

Imagine what people said about the new camaro in 82.

I like it all but the headlight/ grill area. Hopefully that gets softened up a bit in the transition to production.

Fourth gen Camaros are pretty much all ugly to me, just a few that I have seen looked good to me. Fourth gen Trans Am's always looked pretty nice though, looked more aggresive. This new Camaro looks aggresive.

Wife willing, I think that 09 might be a year to think about a new car purchase.

[z28redline]

The 5th gen is a typical gm concept car. It will not make it to production without incorperating couple hundred pieces from the good old gm parts bin. If this was a mopar concept I would be scared because that company holds to there guns and what goes to the shows doesn't differ very much from what you see on the road. I'm surprised that the indy. rear suspension bothers you dewey. I think that is the only place to go with the natural progression of the vehicle. Now I understand that wouldn't be true to the "muscle car" ideals but the times have changed and if gm doesn't move ahead they'll keep producing the same car with no performance enhancement except the size of the motor. Something to compare would be when the C5 corvette got a transaxle instead of a convensional transmission; gm had reached there end and moved on.

The interior of this vehicle is awful and unrealistic to produce. Show me the airbags!!! Also the wood trim just doesn't say Camaro to me at all.

A question I have is why not bring the concept out as a z28 with a lower air dam and some racing stripes? Show me show some of that good old fashion SCCA race car that made the car what it is. And why Silver?? Not the right color for a classic muscle car at all. Alright I'm done. Next.

z28redline

[Dewey316]

I love the IRS, on the other cars. There is something fun about a solid axle car. And if any current GM nameplate should have one, the camaro should.

[Jess]

Be interesting if GM can stay afloat long enough to bring the F-car back... Personally I would only want to see the F-body come back if they both came back...

[Dewey316]

[chevymad]

I'll bet the camaro ends up being a porker too. 2009 is about 4 years too late for a retro car as well. Typical gm, come into the trend at the end instead of the beginning. I was hoping maybe some of the caddy styling would catch on. At least its some original thinking. I kind of like the new camaro, but we'll see what I think in 3 1/2 more years.. especially after the bean counters get ahold of that concept for awhile.

The one car concept I think they could build and sell pretty easily didnt even come from gm. That buick gnx concept was sweet, and its nearly all gto. I think it looks much better though. All it would need is a turbo v/6 drivetrain. As much as I like the ls motors, a gnx would need its own powerplant to set it apart from the goat.

[z28redline]

Yeah I see where you are coming from Dewey and to be honest I'm a fan of the solid rear as well.

That Challenger concept is a great looking vechile and when you compare it to the orginals it holds true to those classic body lines. If it comes out for production I'd be interested.

z28redline

[slut]

I like the styling, but the front end is complete ass.

The high-power version is probably gonna be around 40K, and hardly anyone will buy it.

[Xophertony]

dewey, a few questions from the guy who does not realy understand your POV. what are the advantages of solid axel over IRS? and i was always under the impression that overhead cam was more efficiant. is there an advantage to a pushrod engine? are these usless, gainless changes or are you upset because you see this as to much of a drift from fcar tradition?

as far as the looks..... yeah, i agree with you there. but like others have said, i am not worried because i know this ugly monster will never see production in its current state. hell i have seen a few concept shots of the "3rd gen firebird" from 79 that blew my mind. the nose was about a foot longer. think pinochio gone "pathalogical liar"


EDIT* i looove the new chalanger (apperance only). the front and sides are awsome! the ass could use a ... change... of some kind. but designing a car to do the former "trans am" race winner justice must be a ... wait for it... challange.

[Sellmanb]

The new camaro looks like a Cavalier and Magnum had sex

[Twilightoptics]

[Schultzy89GTA]

Who cares... it's only a camaro.




Johnny Hunkins had a nice editorial in the current popular hot rodding that makes some of the points mentioned here. The article was written as a letter to GM and Chrysler.

-Schultzy

[RSFreak]

They should have gone full retro with this instead of half-heartedly as it appears they did. I think GM should either beat the Mustang at its own game or they shouldn't compete in the retro market. For what its worth, I think that retro Challenger is AMAZING! It is instantly recognizable as a Challenger despite the modern architechture. Thats how GM should have styled this thing. Thankfully, new cars almost never hit the showroom floors looking much like the concept model at all. Lets hope GM can sort this thing out and make it a REAL Camaro before they release it!

[Xophertony]

[iansane]

To me...that challanger looks hideous.

It's like.....pontiac aztek ugly. The proportions are just all wrong to me. Mainly the front end, it's way too high off the ground.

[Xophertony]

ugly sure.... but aztek ugly? thats a big step.

[Dewey316]

For drag racing launches solid rears are better. IRS is nice, don't get me wrong. The f-cars have always had a solid rear, I think it is part of its charm. A very large majority of f-cars that are modified, are done so to drag race. This is where the solid axle is best suited. For me it is mostly a nastalgia thing.